From topshot@indy.net Tue Dec 18 04:37:48 2001 Return-path: Envelope-to: dennehym@localhost Delivery-date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:37:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=dennehym) by sparks.cs.tcd.ie with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 16GC0W-00027T-01 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:37:37 +0000 Received: from mail.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.32.56] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.0) for dennehym@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:37:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sire (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.cs.tcd.ie (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19876 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 04:36:45 GMT Received: from sdn-ar-001inthaup309.dialsprint.net ([158.252.109.47] helo=raym-pc-1.indy.net) by sire with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16GBRp-0005GP-00; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:01:46 -0800 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.1.20011217222445.02fdd190@pop.indy.net> X-Sender: topshot@pop.indy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:02:23 -0500 To: topshot@indy.net From: Michael Ray Subject: UIT Mailing List Vol. 6 - #8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1525342586==_.ALT" X-UIDL: W2P!!Z>b"!/o^!!%!B!! Content-Length: 66008 Lines: 1427 --=====================_1525342586==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please e-mail address changes, unsubscribe requests, or submissions to me. To subscribe to the "real-time" version of the list send an email to uit_mailing_list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com In this issue: Re: Custom Leather Wear gone? Re: Custom Leather Wear gone? Re: Custom Leather Wear gone? Re: Custom Leather Wear gone? New shooting web store Re: FWB 2602 Super Match Chamber reamers Re: Chamber reamers S+N stocks Eley Ultimate EPS Re: Eley Ultimate EPS Re: Eley Ultimate EPS Re: Eley Ultimate EPS Re: Eley Ultimate EPS Junior rifle match Intermediate free rifle Re: Intermediate free rifle Unique X-Concept Free pistol postal ******************************************************************** I am not surprised to hear of Mark's experience with custom leather. The individual that runs this operation is one of the most obnoxious people= =20 I have ever met. I say "one of" because his wife was even worse. I=20 ordered a jacket and pair of pants from him, through Jack Foster back in=20 1992. The items were defective and sent back directly to him for=20 repair/replacement. He did neither. While Jack was able to get my money=20 back from him, this individual gave us about three months of grief in the=20 process. I noticed that about 6 months later, Jack dropped the line from=20 his catalog. I also seem to recall that there was something very strange=20 about the way the items were originally received. I don't remember exactly= =20 what it was, but it did seem to imply some sort of tax or import duty= evasion. I also have a friend who is a leather worker. About the same time, he made= =20 about a dozen high quality slings for this same individual. My last=20 information is that my friend never got payment for, or received the slings= =20 back from custom leather. While he pursued it for a while, he was never=20 successful. For the last nine years, I have strongly urged everyone I know not to do=20 business with this individual. If, in fact, this individual has gone out=20 of business, then my only comment is "Good riddance!" I would advise Mark to contact his State's Attorney General as soon as=20 possible. While I sincerely hope I am wrong, I strongly suspect that he=20 will not get his money back. Regards, Lt. Stephen B. Flatt, USNR U.S. Naval Reserve Rifle Team [Editor - I have ordered three thrings from him with success, but he is arrogant IMHO. I have also heard several stories that if it didn't fit, too bad, it was made to the measurements you sent so it's your fault.] ******************************************************************** As Custom Leather is (was?) located in Niagara Falls, Ontario, I would strongly suggest that Mark and others who may have had difficulties with this business to contact the Ontario Ministry of Consumer and Business Services at (416) 326-8555. Although I'm not a lawyer, it sounds as though some of the problems that people have had with this individual could indicate a violation of Ontario's Consumer Protection Act. The folks at the number listed above would be better able to advise. Best Regards, Steve ******************************************************************** One of our juniors called Custom Leather Wear and found out that they are=20 retiring. They are not taking any new orders, but said they were working on= =20 finishing the orders they had on hand. Pat McCoy ******************************************************************** >With Custom Leather Wear going out of business, who is left out there >building custom quality shooting suits? I assume you meant affordable as well to the avg joe not going for the nationals. trybom.com and centershot.com have some inexpensive offerings. Michael Ray ******************************************************************** Hi Michael, I have been on your mailing list for a few years and enjoy it very much.=20 Keep up the good work!! I would like to tell you about a little webshop I have developed. It is=20 found at shootingstuff.co.nz I along with another shooter of some repute have put togethern a few=20 products that we make and hope to start a bit of news from our end of the=20 planet happening on the site too. Is it possible to add our site to your shooters links and to mention it on= =20 the mailing list. many thanks in advance Sean McCabe sean@shootingstuff.co.nz ******************************************************************** Hi there,I'll try to help You along. I got the FWB because I have owned several airguns(Now a P70 Alu)and the=20 thought was why not, they have cut it with the airgun and then they=20 probably cuts it with a .22!?Well, the 2602 shot like a shotgun with=20 everything but Federal ammo.Lapua was absolutely a waste.I shot=20 pronematches with scores from 579 to 590 and didn't like it .I lent the gun= =20 to a friend, and he had it stored for a year.Then a couple of weeks ago I=20 got it back and had this idea about changing the chamber.I had done this on= =20 a barrel that I got from Jonas Edman(Olympic Champ.)He had purchased a=20 Lilja barrel and didn't get it to shoot.I got it to shoot Federal UM1 High= =20 Speed, but the rest was bad,really bad.A good RWS R-50 shot 28mm on a=20 tenshot string(measured on the outside)Then I touched up the chamber with a= =20 new reamer and all of a sudden the round showed groups of less than 12mm=20 across.The best so far with that is 9,7mm on a tenshot string. I did the same with the 2602 and felt that the chamber and the bore already= =20 was a bit on the "wide/big" side.But then I tested Eley Ultimate and the=20 gun shot excellent groups, and a R-100(RWS) did around 11mm.So, in my=20 opinion the 2602 now shows a bit of promise.The trouble have been to find=20 ammo for it.technically it is better than the Ansch=FCtz sylindrical actions= =20 .But the square 2013 is better and easier to tune. I have a wooden stock for my Ansch=FCtz and have bedded a alu rail down in= it=20 to give my round action better support behind where the trigger is.I also=20 have put a new recoil point ahead of the front actionscrew around the=20 barrel, and it helps. I am going to make(machine) a new action based on the 2013 with the three=20 screws for tightening the barrel on top.Then I can adjust the torque while= =20 testing ammo without taking out of the stock(it will be aluminium)I am=20 going to machine a new forestock based on the 2602.Then drill holes for the= =20 various guns(.22Ans./-6mmAccuracy Int./Tanner) and then I have one rack for= =20 all systems.The rear part of the 2602 is sturdy enough for 300m shooting= too. With the Ansch=FCtz the possibilities are the same.Gr=FCnig und= Elmiger(Swiss)=20 produces a 300m freerifle with the Ansch=FCtz Alu stock as a base, but expensive and you need a second part to fit inside= =20 the stock. If You think about vibrations in the Alu stock, forget it,it's ok and You=20 don't need any bedding. Interchangeable barrels with the Ans.2013 is a very good choice.Buy 3=20 different barrels and You always have a barrel for the ammo You can get=20 hold of.One for Lapua,one for Federal and one that takes Eley or RWS.You=20 might even find one that shoots everything.Ansch=FCtz employee claims they= =20 have the most accurate and best .22 barrels now.They have machinery that=20 can measure everything inside barrels,angles, surface and so on.I'd still=20 buy a Lilja or a Border. Hope I have cleared - and messed up everything !!?Both are good choices. [Editor - I emailed him a few questions back and got this... ] Well, the 2013 has more weight to it, and you have the possibility to=20 change barrels all the time, plus three screws to tune the barrel=20 with.Another thing is the headspace possibilities and changes to fit the=20 round you want to shoot.The new Eley has a very uniform 1,0mm rim and if=20 you use a rim thickness gauge you'll find lots of different=20 thicknesses,brand by brand and inside each box as well.The action of the=20 2602 is slightly thicker than Ans. and about 30mm longer in the chamber=20 end.This allows the barrel to be seated about 60mm deep contra the 30mm on= =20 Ans.This is good for the accuracy.The bolt is also thicker,marginally and=20 slightly shorter from boltface to where the locking lug is.I would choose=20 that bolt for a new action if needed.Or, due to all the bolts lying around= =20 with the Ansch=FCtz mark on it, it is easier to use one of them.I agree with= =20 You about the way to long distance from locking lug to boltface.I have a=20 remedy for that too, but just in my mind so far, but it will come out=20 eventually, Inside the bolt of the 2602 I feel there is more precision and more speed=20 on the pin compared to the Ans. one. FWB has that plastic thing underneath the action, and a fact is that the=20 gun didn't shoot well without it when actionscrews were torqued to no more= =20 than 5Nm.Now I do slightly more and the plastic is in the guncase, if I=20 should need it.It is clearly there to dampen vibrations, but is it needed=20 in a .22?? I saw J.G=F6nci take his out when he tried a new Ans. some years= =20 back.I don't know if it is back now.Harald Stenvaag uses his old wooden=20 piece, and so does the russian Nekaev and Martinov.But all three have super= =20 ammo.Olymp from Russia with lot no around 1992.Speed of it is around= 290m/sec. (sYou can see, I'm for one and the other, it is like that with my airguns=20 too, I have 2 H=E4mmerlis,one 450 and one AR-50 plus the P-70 Alu.Right now= =20 it is the p-70, but last season it was the AR-50, and the best results I=20 have had with the 450.Technically the AR-50 is by far the best with locking= =20 time less than 4millisec.The FWB has over 6 by comparison, but then there=20 is the feel and so on..The 450 held 40000 pellets before I had it fixed for= =20 leaking.Had to mold everything for a fresh start.) One thing about the alu is that it helps on the stiffness for the=20 action,considerably.FWB is also here better than Ans.The loading ramp=20 inside, in front of the chamber is screwed on from the bottom through the=20 front triggerhousing screw.This stiffens the action more than Ansch=FCtz is= =20 capable of. One way to go would be to buy a French stock called GE 600.You send them=20 the action(s) you want to shoot in them and they fit it them together.For=20 .22 and bigbore. Cost over $600, but it works fine. email RPLU@Wanadoo.fr =D8yvind from Stavanger ,Norway ******************************************************************** =D8yvind mentioned reaming his chambers. I am curious which reamer he used. I chambered both my rifles (Walther PM and Walther GX1) using the .22=20 Clymer "Match" reamer. One rifle has a barrel from an Anschutz 1907 that=20 was set back and rechambered. The other rifle has a top grade Shilen barrel= =20 that was also chambered with the same reamer. The two barrels couldn't be=20 more different in terms of their bore size, twist, and rifling as well as=20 the rifle they are mounted to. Yet, both barrels test ammunition=20 identically out of a machine rest. The only common factor between the two=20 barrels is the chamber which leads me to believe that the chamber has a lot= =20 to do with how a particular barrel performs. I am considering reworking my chambers with another reamer since my rifles= =20 have never performed as consistently as I would like. The Clymer Reamer=20 makes a very tight chamber and the extractors can not pull a loaded=20 cartridge out of the chamber (big problem with a misfire or Camp Perry with= =20 boats causing the line to be shut down without prior notice). I had to=20 design a special pick for extracting the cartridge by hand. I am sure my=20 chambers are about as small as can be, so all I should have to do is run=20 another reamer in the chamber to change them. Does anyone have some thoughts on this and what reamer or chamber=20 dimensions works best? Nick Priddy npriddy@triton.net ******************************************************************** Have read with interest the messages on the effect of rechambering. This is a very well known component of accomplishing accuracy work on match rifles or pistols. What our friend from Norway did was again bring it to the surface of precision gunsmithing for competitions rifles or pistols. The chamber size increase is accomplished to remove restrictions to the bullet leaving the casing. The crimp must have freedom to expand and there by allowing the bullet to free itself without restriction or resistance. Any restriction applied to the bullet leaving the casing will naturally reduce the pressure available for propelling the bullet and any resistance will cause ever ending vibration of the bullet in flight. without the correct pressure the bullet will drop in flight and therefore will not hit the intended point of impact. This takes care of chamber and crimp of case at the bullet mounting. Now the next item is how does the bullet fit the barrel chamber ramp prior to the bullet being fired. The bullet must kiss and lans and groves of the barrel without engaging the lands and groves. The engaging of the bullet into the lands and groves is accomplished at the firing time. The reason for this is the prevention of the bullet from being pushed or rammed back into the casing and thereby increasing the crimp into the bullet. So we note that two requirements are required of a gunsmith. Correct sizing of the chamber in diameter and length. What should a correct bullet look like, the bullet should move a small amount and the crimp tight enough to hold the bullet in the case, yet the chamber long enough to allow the bullet to rest at the lans and groves without full engagement. To check for correct length is to place a bullet into the chamber and close/lock the bolt. Then reject the round from the chamber and with a magnifying glass look for marks on the lead bullet for signs of hard mating with the lans and groves and therewith pushing the bullet deeper into the casing and causing more energy to be used at fire time. The bullet must also be inspected for powder leakage from the casing during shipment and storage where shaking may have occurred. Such movement during shipment will shake the powder out of the case and therefore the bullet will not have a full charge of power in the casing. This happens quite often but is unknown by the shooting athlete. Oh yes, do not remove the wax or paraffin from the bullet. It is applied for the purpose of preventing you from lead poisoning through the fingers. It also serves as a chamber pollutant. That is about it...Every one have a most enjoyable Christmas.. Chet Skinner, Coach Entity Sports International http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/dome/4512/index.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UIT_COACHING ******************************************************************** > It isn't clear from the pics on their site what adjustments can be made= if > any to the cast off, grip and cheekpiece. It also appears that only the > Palma version is available in LH and I do NOT want a 2000 series. I'll ask Robert Nibbs whether he's got any LH Gemini Ultras sitting around. Shouldn't be a huge problem; the only difference between a LH and an RH= would be the bolt handle notch and the handgrip woodwork. As regards grip, he will do special builds for larger hands. .....anyway, on to the cheekpiece..... The great thing about the cheekpiece is its adjustability. Once you've set the angle on it, the height is adjustable while in position. There's a vertical threaded pin with a pair of vertical clamping pins dropping from the bottom of the cheekpiece. The two clamping pins have butterfly-ish nuts to fix the cheekpiece in position, once at the correct height. The central, threaded (on a reasonably fine pitch), pin has a disk on it which controls how far the cheekpiece drops into the butt. So, to adjust height, you release the clamping screws, and with your rifle in the aim, turn the disk as a thumbwheel until your eye is centred. The pitch of the thread is such that it is quite possible to have the weight of the head on the cheekpiece, and still adjust it under total control; by that I mean adjustability within the rear iris, ie fractions of a millimeter in height. Once in position, tighten clamping nuts. The wood is fastened to the metalwork by two allen bolts; so the cheekpiece can be yawed, and moved left-and-right (no roll, no pitch; if you want those, you buy a piece of wood and shape it). I've been using the stock for four years now, and it's "vanilla" in that I've not needed to modify it. I had a 1413 which dropped in, but I'm now using a Shilen-barrelled 1813 with a Time barrel tuner (unconvinced on the barrel tuning, but it gives me an 8" sight base extension) to achieve "most ridiculous-looking rifle on the range". http://website.lineone.net/~scottish.smallbore/csfpics/martin1.jpg That, and my most frequent phrase is "the extension is to make up for inadequacies in other departments :-) :-) :-)" [Editor - A few more questions from me got this...] No, it isn't symmetrical; it's a thumbhole stock these days, but the stock is identical from pistol grip forwards (the butt bolts on to the Al foreend) I spoke to Robert; he does do true left-handed Ultras, and even has some in stock at the moment, but normally builds them to order. His number (after the factory move) is now +44-1452-729888..... ...I should confess that Robert is now my coach (he's one of the Scotland coaches)......but I bought the stock while he was still competing, i.e three years before he even started coaching...... > I have small hands so if that is the way it was built, that's fine. I was > more concerned about whether you can MOVE the grip as well like the new= ALU > stocks allow. Nope. This is the only area where the newer Aluminium stocks have an adjustability that the Gemini doesn't. But then, I'm shooting PSK without any problems. > >The wood is fastened to the metalwork by two allen bolts; so the > >cheekpiece can be yawed, and moved left-and-right (no roll, no pitch; > >if you want those, you buy a piece of wood and shape it). > > How long are the slots for the left-right adjustment? Not sure. From memory, about 15-20mm... > It's no wonder you have to lean back so far with that monster on the > end of your barrel. The centre of gravity is only slightly (ie less than a cm) further forward than it was with my 1413 added. It's just that I've got a flexible spine....anyway, looking at the photo again, it's not that far back..... As for weight, the Ultra with a full weight 1913 action/barrel comes in at about 6.4 kg (so women can use it as a sport rifle) and mine is only sitting at 6.6 or so.... > How wide is the foreend? It almost appears like the wood doesn't go all= the > way flush with the bottom of the stock there. The foreend metalwork is only slightly (ie 5-6mm) wider than an Anschutz 14/18/19-series action. The width is increased slightly forward of the action by the addition of a wooden batten on each side. It's flush with the bottom all along the equipment rail under the fore-end, and only stops being flush at the action or thereabouts. Each batten is about 5-8mm thick (from memory), so all told, the stock width is about 15-22mm wider than an Anschutz action. I have seen people remove one or both battens (they're held on by three Allen bolts) to get a thinner foreend, but I've never felt the need :-) Martin Sinclair ******************************************************************** There has been some time since Eley introduced their new ammunition. What is your experience with the ammunition for smallbore rifle? ******************************************************************** I bought a batch of 10,000 'old' Tenex in Oct 2000 and it performed well. Group tested at Eley with my barrel to approx 15.5mm (Batch WXE192). I understand some of the new technology had already been implemented at that time. My next batch was EPS bought in June 2001 and group down to about 13.3mm (Batch UFX1188). New stuff seems to work great in wind and with semi-wadcutter shape makes nice holes. My average has improved and I have never shot so many 'tons' at all distances. At present, I know of no other ammunition to beat it, but hope the other manufacturers will respond. Competition keeps the manufacturers developing better products for us. The ammo was tested at the Eley Batch Testing facility. There tests go as follows: 1. You bring a control lot with you (about 100 rds of your favorite). 2. Eley have 3 'vices' that your rifle is clamped into. Most require action removing from stock. Mine (left-handed 1810L) was put into their only left handed clamping frame, torqued to 7N and then the clamping frame put into one of their HUGE vices. 3. Warm the barrel with their EPS warmers. I normally warm with about 10 shots. Important to not shoot too quickly. 4. Shoot 2 ten shot groups with your control batch. 5. Shoot ten shot groups of all Eley's available batches. Normally between 15 and 18 batches. (Eley's Range officer will measure the results for you while you continue to shoot.) 6. Shoot 2 ten shot groups with your control batch. 7. Select best batches (normally about 6 batches) and shoot 3 more ten shot groups of each batch. 8. If you wish, you may shoot some more of the short list of batches or shoot some of the batches that you didn't originally select to your short list. 9. If you like a batch, you may purchase up to the stock of that batch available. I like to buy at least 10,000 rounds. Things to remember. 1. If you want to clean the rifle mid test, don't hesitate to do so. I tend to run a 'tampon' through after about 10-15 groups. 2. You are not obliged to buy. 3. If you have tested before, bring the previous results. Eley will want to beat their previous results. 4. Groups are expected to be better from the shoulder than in a vice! 5. When re-testing at a later visit, always use the same clamping frame. Eley's testing facility is indoors 50M, costs about GBP 25 for the test and you leave with the results, information on the batches you tested and receive free coffee or tea! I normally average 450 rounds at each testing. Bob Meadows ******************************************************************** I have not yet tried it in a rifle. However in my long barrel Buckmark pistol, I previously found that Lapua Midas L (larger diameter than most others) shot better than any others, with 50 yard groups consistently at 0.5 inches for 5 shots, 0.7 inches for 10 shots. Other high quality pistols achieved about the same results. That is from sandbags using a 6X scope. You might not consider this quite good enough for top level rifle competition, but it's only a high end variety of a cheap plinking pistol. Recently I tried the black box EPS (same as Tenex but different lots at about half the price, like Federal Match vs UltraMatch), and was delighted to find it shoots the same as the Lapua. So I definitely consider it worth trying, however nobody can tell whether any ammunition will give good results in your rifle until you test it yourself. Sometimes a particular lot of relatively cheap ammo will give surprisingly good results in any particular gun, while that same gun might fail to enjoy other lots that are much more expensive. You have to try a sample of a particular lot of some brand, then buy as much as you can of that same lot if it works well in your gun. Reserve the best for matches, because you can't get more just any time you like. - Benjamin ******************************************************************** smallbore wrote: > > 2. Eley have 3 'vices' that your rifle is clamped into. Most require > action removing from stock. Mine (left-handed 1810L) was put into > their only left handed clamping frame, torqued to 7N and then the > clamping frame put into one of their HUGE vices. It's maybe worth pointing out that your action is put into one of the partial stocks that Eley keeps on site; they typically put your action into the Alu body of an S+N Gemini stock, and clamp the stock into the vice. The also have a Feinwerkbau stock, and a V-notch rest instead of the vices for those who want to spend lots of time testing........ .....they used to (up until a year or two ago) clamp the barrel into the vice. I've been to the Eley factory to test four or five times now; the EPS is giving me the best results I've ever had (including my selected batches of MIDAS L) namely my average over four groups of ten shots each, was 12.6mm edge-to-edge. (For comparison' sake, the best they've seen is an average 11.5mm or so; and Rajmond Debevec's ammo for the last Olympics tested at 12.5mm) Martin Sinclair ******************************************************************** Martin Sinclair wrote: > > I've been to the Eley factory to test four or five times now; the EPS > is giving me the best results I've ever had (including my selected= batches > of MIDAS L) namely my average over four groups of ten shots each, was > 12.6mm edge-to-edge. Hmm, that would be 0.496 inches edge to edge, 0.276 inches center to center, and all shots touching a circle of about 0.056 inches in the center. That is considerably better than my 0.7 inches (center to center) from a pistol on sandbags, but then I didn't select any particular lot and I for sure had some variations just from the parallax of the scope. If your best lot averaged 12.6mm, 1. How consistent was it? If you shot another four groups, do you expect the 2nd average would be about the same? 2. How bad was the worst lot you tested of the same ammunition? 3. When several people run the test with the same lots of ammo, as apparently is usually the case; if each shooter ranked all the lots in order, would they tend to put the same lots near the top of their list, or are they completely random? 4a. Is the ammo they supply for their fussiest customers at the test center, the same as what they ship to people who don't have much choice, or are these pre-selected to be among their better lots? 4b. When one lot has been rejected by say 100 consecutive testers who each found at least one other lot to be better, is that the lot they send me? I would love to make a trip to England to test ammo, but right now I am sure that time and expense would be better spent on a better gun and practice time. Even with a $75.00 case of Remington from CMP at Camp Perry, it is clear most of my lost points are my own fault, not the ammo. Still, those small benchrest groups are fun! - Benjamin ******************************************************************** Last year we(St. Louis University High) started a match called the Mid-America High School Rifle match. It was held in Kansas City, MO and was only for high school 3-P smallbore teams. This year we are holding the match again Feb. 23-24 at Quincy, IL. But this year we are including club teams and have added 3-P air rifle to the program. We would like to get the word out to as many people as we can to make this match a success. So I'm wondering if you could maybe put the bulletin on your mailing list and possibly distribute the bulletin to any Jr. teams you may know of. We already have teams coming from MI,MO,IL,KS and can accomadate 95 shooters in both 3-P air and smallbore. So we hope we can make this match a big success. Thanks for any help you can give us on promoting our match. William Bresnahan [Editor - contact bresnawj@SLU.EDU for more info.] ******************************************************************** I am relatively new to the smallbore sport, and I have a lot of questions. However, I wont ask them all right now. What I do want to know it what is a good intermediate rifle? What I mean by that is, currently I have a Marlin 2000L which is a good starter rifle, but I'll soon "outgrow" this rifle and need to upgrade. What rifle should be my next step if I don't want to purchase an Anschutz 2013 yet? Anyone have any ideas? How about a Remington 40-X, are they any good? The goal is to eventually be able to tryout for the US Olympic Team. I know I have a lot of work ahead of me, and if I go down there now I'll just get abused in the scoring. I'll look into a used Anschutz rifle. Maybe Neal Johnson or Champion Shooters Supply has some good deals. Jim Bongiovanni ******************************************************************** It all depends on how committed you are to the sport and how much money (and time) you can afford to spend on a rifle. Training to be competitve at an Olympic or National level is, somewhat, different than training for State or Local matches. For the Olympics, you want the best of everything; rifle, ammo, etc.; thereby, narrowing the variables down to just your ability. For local or state matches, generally you use what you can afford. I am in a similar position as you, in that I recently wanted to upgrade to a rifle that I would not soon outgrow, and would keep me competitive in any match that I might attend at the state or local level. Also, I had less than $1,500 to spend. I purchase a used Anschutz rifle, because everyone that I spoke with, and everthing that I read indicated that the older rifles, in good shape and/or not abused, are just as accurate as the newer rifles. Consider this: 1. How much do you want to spend? This will help point you in the direction of the rifles that you need to look at, i.e. new or used, and/or what options. 2. How competitive do you want to be? How many hours do you have to train? 3. A used rifle will, probably, hold its value better than a new one, should you choose to sell it or trade up in the future. 4. Anschutz dominates smallbore, especially International style. There are plenty of new and used rifles, parts, stocks, etc. to choose from (another good reason to stay with Anschutz if you decide to sell or trade later). Finally, 5. Training is the most important part of the process! Good luck and have fun..... Cliff Calhoun ******************************************************************** >Dear Michael > >I wish to purchase a Unique X Concept Rifle but am not having any joy-can >you help? > >Andrew Piper >hastingsglazing@paradise.net.nz [Editor - it was my understanding they went out of business so it will likely be hard to find one.] ******************************************************************** We at the University of Utah Shooting Club are holding a Free Pistol Postal= =20 match and we would like to invite you and your fellow shooters to=20 participate. I have received your e-mail addresses from our shooting coach= =20 Matt Delong in hopes of drumming up more competition. We are holding this=20 postal match as a fundraiser to help us with traveling expenses to the=20 Collegiate National Championship match and also for our scholarship= endowment. Hope you will participate, Ron Kiiha - U of U Shooting Club [Editor - Email Ronkiiha@aol.com for more info.] ******************************************************************** End of UIT Mailing List #8 Michael Ray - DBA & Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm --=====================_1525342586==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please e-mail address changes, unsubscribe requests, or submissions to me.

To subscribe to the "real-time" version of the list send an email to
uit_mailing_list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

In this issue:

Re: Custom Leather Wear gone?
Re: Custom Leather Wear gone?
Re: Custom Leather Wear gone?
Re: Custom Leather Wear gone?
New shooting web store
Re: FWB 2602 Super Match
Chamber reamers
Re: Chamber reamers
S+N stocks
Eley Ultimate EPS
Re: Eley Ultimate EPS
Re: Eley Ultimate EPS
Re: Eley Ultimate EPS
Re: Eley Ultimate EPS
Junior rifle match
Intermediate free rifle
Re: Intermediate free rifle
Unique X-Concept
Free pistol postal

********************************************************************

I am not surprised to hear of Mark's experience with custom=20 leather.
 
The individual that runs this operation is one of the most obnoxious people I have ever met.  I say "one of" because his wife was even worse.  I ordered a jacket and pair of pants from him, through Jack Foster back in 1992.  The items were defective and sent back directly to him for repair/replacement.  He did neither.  While Jack was able to get my money back from him, this individual gave us about three months of grief in the process.  I noticed that about 6 months later, Jack dropped the line from his catalog.  I also seem to recall that there was something very strange about the way the items were originally received.  I don't remember exactly what it was, but it did seem to imply some sort of tax or import duty evasion.
 
I also have a friend who is a leather worker.  About the same time, he made about a dozen high quality slings for this same individual.  My last information is that my friend never got payment for, or received the slings back from custom leather.  While he pursued it for a while, he was never successful.
 
For the last nine years, I have strongly urged everyone I know not to do business with this individual.  If, in fact, this individual has gone out of business, then my only comment is "Good riddance!"
 
I would advise Mark to contact his State's Attorney General as soon as possible.  While I sincerely hope I am wrong, I strongly suspect that he will not get his money back.
 
Regards,
 
Lt. Stephen B. Flatt, USNR
U.S. Naval Reserve Rifle Team

[Editor - I have ordered three thrings from him with success, but he is
arrogant IMHO. I have also heard several stories that if it didn't fit, too
bad, it was made to the measurements you sent so it's your fault.]

********************************************************************

As Custom Leather is (was?) located in Niagara Falls, Ontario, I would
strongly suggest that Mark and others who may have had difficulties with
this business to contact the Ontario Ministry of Consumer and Business
Services at (416) 326-8555. Although I'm not a lawyer, it sounds as though
some of the problems that people have had with this individual could
indicate a violation of Ontario's Consumer Protection Act. The folks at the
number listed above would be better able to advise.
Best Regards,
Steve

********************************************************************

One of our juniors called Custom Leather Wear and found out that they are retiring. They are not taking any new orders, but said they were working on finishing the orders they had on hand.
Pat McCoy

********************************************************************

>With Custom Leather Wear going out of business, who is left out there
>building custom quality shooting suits?

I assume you meant affordable as well to the avg joe not going for the
nationals.

trybom.com and centershot.com have some inexpensive offerings.

Michael Ray

********************************************************************

Hi Michael,
I have been on your mailing list for a few years and enjoy it very much. Keep up the good work!!
I would like to tell you about a little webshop I have developed. It is found at shootingstuff.co.nz
I along with another shooter of some repute have put togethern a few products that we make and hope to start a bit of news from our end of the planet happening on the site too.
Is it possible to add our site to your shooters links and to mention it on the mailing list.
many thanks in advance
Sean McCabe
sean@shootingstuff.co.nz

********************************************************************

Hi there,I'll try to help You along.
I got the FWB because I have owned several airguns(Now a P70 Alu)and the thought was why not, they have cut it with the airgun and then they probably cuts it with a .22!?Well, the 2602 shot like a shotgun with everything but Federal ammo.Lapua was absolutely a waste.I shot pronematches with scores from 579 to 590 and didn't like it .I lent the gun to a friend, and he had it stored for a year.Then a couple of weeks ago I got it back and had this idea about changing the chamber.I had done this on a barrel that I got from Jonas Edman(Olympic Champ.)He had purchased a Lilja barrel and didn't get it to shoot.I got it to shoot Federal UM1 High Speed, but the rest was bad,really bad.A good RWS R-50 shot 28mm on a tenshot string(measured on the outside)Then I touched up the chamber with a new reamer and all of a sudden the round showed groups of less than 12mm across.The best so far with that is 9,7mm on a tenshot string.
I did the same with the 2602 and felt that the chamber and the bore already was a bit on the "wide/big" side.But then I tested Eley Ultimate and the gun shot excellent groups, and a R-100(RWS) did around 11mm.So, in my opinion the 2602 now shows a bit of promise.The trouble have been to find ammo for it.technically it is better than the Ansch=FCtz sylindrical actions .But the square 2013 is better and easier to tune.
I have a wooden stock for my Ansch=FCtz and have bedded a alu rail down in it to give my round action better support behind where the trigger is.I also have put a new recoil point ahead of the front actionscrew around the barrel, and it helps.
I am going to make(machine) a new action based on the 2013 with the three screws for tightening the barrel on top.Then I can adjust the torque while testing ammo without taking out of the stock(it will be aluminium)I am going to machine a new forestock based on the 2602.Then drill holes for the various guns(.22Ans./-6mmAccuracy Int./Tanner) and then I have one rack for all systems.The rear part of the 2602 is sturdy enough for 300m shooting too.
With the Ansch=FCtz the possibilities are the same.Gr=FCnig und Elmiger(Swiss) produces a 300m freerifle with the Ansch=FCtz
Alu stock as a base, but expensive and you need a second part to fit inside the stock.
If You think about vibrations in the Alu stock, forget it,it's ok and You don't need any bedding.
Interchangeable barrels with the Ans.2013 is a very good choice.Buy 3 different barrels and You always have a barrel for the ammo You can get hold of.One for Lapua,one for Federal and one that takes Eley or RWS.You might even find one that shoots everything.Ansch=FCtz employee claims they have the most accurate and best .22 barrels now.They have machinery that can measure everything inside barrels,angles, surface and so on.I'd still buy a Lilja or a Border.
Hope I have cleared - and messed up everything !!?Both are good choices.

[Editor - I emailed him a few questions back and got this... ]

Well, the 2013 has more weight to it, and you have the possibility to change barrels all the time, plus three screws to tune the barrel with.Another thing is the headspace possibilities and changes to fit the round you want to shoot.The new Eley has a very uniform 1,0mm rim and if you use a rim thickness gauge you'll find lots of different thicknesses,brand by brand and inside each box as well.The action of the 2602 is slightly thicker than Ans. and about 30mm longer in the chamber end.This allows the barrel to be seated about 60mm deep contra the 30mm on Ans.This is good for the accuracy.The bolt is also thicker,marginally and slightly shorter from boltface to where the locking lug is.I would choose that bolt for a new action if needed.Or, due to all the bolts lying around with the Ansch=FCtz mark on it, it is easier to use one of them.I agree with You about the way to long distance from locking lug to boltface.I have a remedy for that too, but just in my mind so far, but it will come out eventually,
Inside the bolt of the 2602 I feel there is more precision and more speed on the pin compared to the Ans. one.
FWB has that plastic thing underneath the action, and a fact is that the gun didn't shoot well without it when actionscrews were torqued to no more than 5Nm.Now I do slightly more and the plastic is in the guncase, if I should need it.It is clearly there to dampen vibrations, but is it needed in a .22?? I saw J.G=F6nci take his out when he tried a new Ans. some years back.I don't know if it is back now.Harald Stenvaag uses his old wooden piece, and so does the russian Nekaev and Martinov.But all three have super ammo.Olymp from Russia with lot no around 1992.Speed of it is around 290m/sec.
(sYou can see, I'm for one and the other, it is like that with my airguns too, I have 2 H=E4mmerlis,one 450 and one AR-50 plus the P-70 Alu.Right now it is the p-70, but last season it was the AR-50, and the best results I have had with the 450.Technically the AR-50 is by far the best with locking time less than 4millisec.The FWB has over 6 by comparison, but then there is the feel and so on..The 450 held 40000 pellets before I had it fixed for leaking.Had to mold everything for a fresh start.)
One thing about the alu is that it helps on the stiffness for the action,considerably.FWB is also here better than Ans.The loading ramp inside, in front of the chamber is screwed on from the bottom through the front triggerhousing screw.This stiffens the action more than Ansch=FCtz is capable of.
One way to go would be to buy a French stock called GE 600.You send them the action(s) you want to shoot in them and they fit it them together.For .22 and bigbore.
Cost over $600, but it works fine. email RPLU@Wanadoo.fr

=D8yvind
from Stavanger ,Norway

********************************************************************

=D8yvind mentioned reaming his chambers. I am curious which reamer he used.
I chambered both my rifles (Walther PM and Walther GX1) using the .22 Clymer "Match" reamer. One rifle has a barrel from an Anschutz 1907 that was set back and rechambered. The other rifle has a top grade Shilen barrel that was also chambered with the same reamer. The two barrels couldn't be more different in terms of their bore size, twist, and rifling as well as the rifle they are mounted to. Yet, both barrels test ammunition identically out of a machine rest. The only common factor between the two barrels is the chamber which leads me to believe that the chamber has a lot to do with how a particular barrel performs.
I am considering reworking my chambers with another reamer since my rifles have never performed as consistently as I would like. The Clymer Reamer makes a very tight chamber and the extractors can not pull a loaded cartridge out of the chamber (big problem with a misfire or Camp Perry with boats causing the line to be shut down without prior notice). I had to design a special pick for extracting the cartridge by hand. I am sure my chambers are about as small as can be, so all I should have to do is run another reamer in the chamber to change them.
Does anyone have some thoughts on this and what reamer or chamber dimensions works best?

Nick Priddy
npriddy@triton.net

********************************************************************

Have read with interest the messages on the effect of rechambering.=20
This is a very well known component of accomplishing accuracy work on
match rifles or pistols.
What our friend from Norway did was again bring it to the surface of
precision gunsmithing for competitions rifles or pistols.
The chamber size increase is accomplished to remove restrictions to=20
the bullet leaving the casing.
The crimp must have freedom to expand and there by allowing the
bullet to free itself without restriction or resistance. Any
restriction applied to the bullet leaving the casing will naturally=20
reduce the pressure available for propelling the bullet and any
resistance will cause ever ending vibration of the bullet in flight.
without the correct pressure the bullet will drop in flight and
therefore will not hit the intended point of impact.
This takes care of chamber and crimp of case at the bullet mounting.
Now the next item is how does the bullet fit the barrel chamber ramp
prior to the bullet being fired. The bullet must kiss and lans and
groves of the barrel without engaging the lands and groves. The
engaging of the bullet into the lands and groves is accomplished at=20
the firing time. The reason for this is the prevention of the bullet
from being pushed or rammed back into the casing and thereby
increasing the crimp into the bullet.
So we note that two requirements are required of a gunsmith. Correct
sizing of the chamber in diameter and length.
What should a correct bullet look like, the bullet should move a small
amount and the crimp tight enough to hold the bullet in the case, yet
the chamber long enough to allow the bullet to rest at the lans and=20
groves without full engagement. To check for correct length is to
place a bullet into the chamber and close/lock the bolt. Then reject
the round from the chamber and with a magnifying glass look for marks
on the lead bullet for signs of hard mating with the lans and groves
and therewith pushing the bullet deeper into the casing and causing=20
more energy to be used at fire time.
The bullet must also be inspected for powder leakage from the casing
during shipment and storage where shaking may have occurred. Such
movement during shipment will shake the powder out of the case and
therefore the bullet will not have a full charge of power in the
casing. This happens quite often but is unknown by the shooting
athlete.
Oh yes, do not remove the wax or paraffin from the bullet. It is
applied for the purpose of preventing you from lead poisoning through
the fingers. It also serves as a chamber pollutant.
That is about it...Every one have a most enjoyable Christmas..
Chet Skinner, Coach
Entity Sports International
http://www.geocities.com/colosseum/dome/4512/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UIT_COACHING

*************************************************************= *******

> It isn't clear from the pics on their site what adjustments can be made= if
> any to the cast off, grip and cheekpiece. It also appears that only the=
> Palma version is available in LH and I do NOT want a 2000 series.
I'll ask Robert Nibbs whether he's got any LH Gemini Ultras sitting around.=
Shouldn't be a huge problem; the only difference between a LH and an RH= would
be the bolt handle notch and the handgrip woodwork.
As regards grip, he will do special builds for larger hands.
.....anyway, on to the cheekpiece.....
The great thing about the cheekpiece is its adjustability. Once you've
set the angle on it, the height is adjustable while in position.
There's a vertical threaded pin with a pair of vertical clamping pins
dropping from the bottom of the cheekpiece. The two clamping pins have
butterfly-ish nuts to fix the cheekpiece in position, once at the correct=
height. The central, threaded (on a reasonably fine pitch), pin has a
disk on it which controls how far the cheekpiece drops into the butt.
So, to adjust height, you release the clamping screws, and with your
rifle in the aim, turn the disk as a thumbwheel until your eye is centred.=
The pitch of the thread is such that it is quite possible to have the
weight of the head on the cheekpiece, and still adjust it under total
control; by that I mean adjustability within the rear iris, ie fractions=
of a millimeter in height. Once in position, tighten clamping nuts.

The wood is fastened to the metalwork by two allen bolts; so the
cheekpiece can be yawed, and moved left-and-right (no roll, no pitch;
if you want those, you buy a piece of wood and shape it).
I've been using the stock for four years now, and it's "vanilla"=
in that I've not needed to modify it. I had a 1413 which dropped in,
but I'm now using a Shilen-barrelled 1813 with a Time barrel tuner
(unconvinced on the barrel tuning, but it gives me an 8" sight base=
extension) to achieve "most ridiculous-looking rifle on the= range".
http://website.lineone.net/~scottish.smallbore/csfpics/m= artin1.jpg
That, and my most frequent phrase is "the extension is= to make up
for inadequacies in other departments :-) :-) :-)"

[Editor - A few more questions from me got this...]

No, it isn't symmetrical; it's a thumbhole stock these days, but the stock=
is identical from pistol grip forwards (the butt bolts on to the Al= foreend)
I spoke to Robert; he does do true left-handed Ultras, and even has some in=
stock at the moment, but normally builds them to order. His number (after=
the factory move) is now +44-1452-729888.....
...I should confess that Robert is now my coach (he's one of the Scotland=
coaches)......but I bought the stock while he was still competing, i.e
three years before he even started coaching......

> I have small hands so if that is the way it was built, that's fine. I= was
> more concerned about whether you can MOVE the grip as well like the new= ALU
> stocks allow.

Nope. This is the only area where the newer Aluminium stocks have an
adjustability that the Gemini doesn't. But then, I'm shooting PSK
without any problems.

> >The wood is fastened to the metalwork by two allen bolts; so the=
> >cheekpiece can be yawed, and moved left-and-right (no roll, no= pitch;
> >if you want those, you buy a piece of wood and shape it).
>
> How long are the slots for the left-right adjustment?

Not sure. From memory, about 15-20mm...

> It's no wonder you have to lean back so far with that monster on the=
> end of your barrel.

The centre of gravity is only slightly (ie less than a cm) further
forward than it was with my 1413 added. It's just that I've got a
flexible spine....anyway, looking at the photo again, it's not that
far back.....
As for weight, the Ultra with a full weight 1913 action/barrel comes
in at about 6.4 kg (so women can use it as a sport rifle) and mine is
only sitting at 6.6 or so....

> How wide is the foreend? It almost appears like the wood doesn't go all= the
> way flush with the bottom of the stock there.

The foreend metalwork is only slightly (ie 5-6mm) wider than an Anschutz=
14/18/19-series action. The width is increased slightly forward of the
action by the addition of a wooden batten on each side. It's flush with the=
bottom all along the equipment rail under the fore-end, and only stops
being flush at the action or thereabouts.
Each batten is about 5-8mm thick (from memory), so all told, the stock
width is about 15-22mm wider than an Anschutz action. I have seen people=
remove one or both battens (they're held on by three Allen bolts) to get=
a thinner foreend, but I've never felt the need :-)

Martin Sinclair

********************************************************************

There has been some time since Eley introduced their new ammunition.
What is your experience with the ammunition for smallbore rifle?

********************************************************************

I bought a batch of 10,000 'old' Tenex in Oct 2000 and it performed
well. Group tested at Eley with my barrel to approx 15.5mm (Batch
WXE192). I understand some of the new technology had already been
implemented at that time. My next batch was EPS bought in June 2001
and group down to about 13.3mm (Batch UFX1188). New stuff seems to
work great in wind and with semi-wadcutter shape makes nice holes. My
average has improved and I have never shot so many 'tons' at all
distances.
At present, I know of no other ammunition to beat it, but hope the
other manufacturers will respond. Competition keeps the manufacturers
developing better products for us.

The ammo was tested at the Eley Batch Testing facility. There tests
go as follows:
1. You bring a control lot with you (about 100 rds of your favorite).
2. Eley have 3 'vices' that your rifle is clamped into. Most require
action removing from stock. Mine (left-handed 1810L) was put into
their only left handed clamping frame, torqued to 7N and then the
clamping frame put into one of their HUGE vices.
3. Warm the barrel with their EPS warmers. I normally warm with about
10 shots. Important to not shoot too quickly.
4. Shoot 2 ten shot groups with your control batch.
5. Shoot ten shot groups of all Eley's available batches. Normally
between 15 and 18 batches. (Eley's Range officer will measure the
results for you while you continue to shoot.)
6. Shoot 2 ten shot groups with your control batch.
7. Select best batches (normally about 6 batches) and shoot 3 more
ten shot groups of each batch.
8. If you wish, you may shoot some more of the short list of batches
or shoot some of the batches that you didn't originally select to
your short list.
9. If you like a batch, you may purchase up to the stock of that
batch available. I like to buy at least 10,000 rounds.
Things to remember.
1. If you want to clean the rifle mid test, don't hesitate to do so.
I tend to run a 'tampon' through after about 10-15 groups.
2. You are not obliged to buy.
3. If you have tested before, bring the previous results. Eley will
want to beat their previous results.
4. Groups are expected to be better from the shoulder than in a vice!
5. When re-testing at a later visit, always use the same clamping
frame.
Eley's testing facility is indoors 50M, costs about GBP 25 for the
test and you leave with the results, information on the batches you
tested and receive free coffee or tea! I normally average 450 rounds
at each testing.

Bob Meadows

********************************************************************

I have not yet tried it in a rifle. However in my long barrel Buckmark
pistol, I previously found that Lapua Midas L (larger diameter than most=
others) shot better than any others, with 50 yard groups consistently at 0.5=
inches for 5 shots, 0.7 inches for 10 shots. Other high quality pistols
achieved about the same results. That is from sandbags using a 6X scope. You=
might not consider this quite good enough for top level rifle competition,=
but it's only a high end variety of a cheap plinking pistol.
Recently I tried the black box EPS (same as Tenex but different lots at
about half the price, like Federal Match vs UltraMatch), and was delighted=
to find it shoots the same as the Lapua.
So I definitely consider it worth trying, however nobody can tell whether=
any ammunition will give good results in your rifle until you test it
yourself. Sometimes a particular lot of relatively cheap ammo will give
surprisingly good results in any particular gun, while that same gun might=
fail to enjoy other lots that are much more expensive. You have to try a=
sample of a particular lot of some brand, then buy as much as you can of=
that same lot if it works well in your gun. Reserve the best for matches,=
because you can't get more just any time you like.
- Benjamin

********************************************************************

smallbore wrote:
>
> 2. Eley have 3 'vices' that your rifle is clamped into. Most require=
> action removing from stock. Mine (left-handed 1810L) was put into
> their only left handed clamping frame, torqued to 7N and then the
> clamping frame put into one of their HUGE vices.

It's maybe worth pointing out that your action is put into one of the
partial stocks that Eley keeps on site; they typically put your action
into the Alu body of an S+N Gemini stock, and clamp the stock into the
vice. The also have a Feinwerkbau stock, and a V-notch rest instead of
the vices for those who want to spend lots of time testing........
.....they used to (up until a year or two ago) clamp the barrel into
the vice.
I've been to the Eley factory to test four or five times now; the EPS
is giving me the best results I've ever had (including my selected batches=
of MIDAS L) namely my average over four groups of ten shots each, was
12.6mm edge-to-edge.
(For comparison' sake, the best they've seen is an average 11.5mm or so;=
and Rajmond Debevec's ammo for the last Olympics tested at 12.5mm)

Martin Sinclair

********************************************************************

Martin Sinclair wrote:
>
> I've been to the Eley factory to test four or five times now; the EPS=
> is giving me the best results I've ever had (including my selected= batches
> of MIDAS L) namely my average over four groups of ten shots each, was=
> 12.6mm edge-to-edge.

Hmm, that would be 0.496 inches edge to edge, 0.276 inches center to center,=
and all shots touching a circle of about 0.056 inches in the center. That is=
considerably better than my 0.7 inches (center to center) from a pistol on=
sandbags, but then I didn't select any particular lot and I for sure had=
some variations just from the parallax of the scope.
If your best lot averaged 12.6mm,
1. How consistent was it? If you shot another four groups, do you expect the=
2nd average would be about the same?
2. How bad was the worst lot you tested of the same ammunition?
3. When several people run the test with the same lots of ammo, as
apparently is usually the case; if each shooter ranked all the lots in
order, would they tend to put the same lots near the top of their list, or=
are they completely random?
4a. Is the ammo they supply for their fussiest customers at the test center,=
the same as what they ship to people who don't have much choice, or are
these pre-selected to be among their better lots?
4b. When one lot has been rejected by say 100 consecutive testers who each=
found at least one other lot to be better, is that the lot they send me?
I would love to make a trip to England to test ammo, but right now I am sure=
that time and expense would be better spent on a better gun and practice=
time. Even with a $75.00 case of Remington from CMP at Camp Perry, it is=
clear most of my lost points are my own fault, not the ammo. Still, those=
small benchrest groups are fun!
- Benjamin

********************************************************************

Last year we(St. Louis University High) started a match
called the Mid-America High School Rifle match. It was held
in Kansas City, MO and was only for high school 3-P
smallbore teams. This year we are holding the match again
Feb. 23-24 at Quincy, IL. But this year we are including
club teams and have added 3-P air rifle to the program. We
would like to get the word out to as many people as we can
to make this match a success. So I'm wondering if you could
maybe put the bulletin on your mailing list and possibly
distribute the bulletin to any Jr. teams you may know of.
We already have teams coming from MI,MO,IL,KS and can
accomadate 95 shooters in both 3-P air and smallbore. So we
hope we can make this match a big success.

Thanks for any help you can give us on promoting our match.

William Bresnahan

[Editor - contact bresnawj@SLU.EDU for more info.]

********************************************************************

I am relatively new to the smallbore sport, and I have a lot of
questions. However, I wont ask them all right now. What I do want
to know it what is a good intermediate rifle? What I mean by that
is, currently I have a Marlin 2000L which is a good starter rifle,
but I'll soon "outgrow" this rifle and need to upgrade. What rifle=
should be my next step if I don't want to purchase an Anschutz 2013
yet? Anyone have any ideas? How about a Remington 40-X, are they
any good?

The goal is to eventually be able to tryout for the US
Olympic Team. I know I have a lot of work ahead of
me, and if I go down there now I'll just get abused in
the scoring.
I'll look into a used Anschutz rifle. Maybe Neal
Johnson or Champion Shooters Supply has some good
deals.

Jim Bongiovanni

********************************************************************

It all depends on how committed you are to the sport
and how much money (and time) you can afford to spend
on a rifle. Training to be competitve at an Olympic
or National level is, somewhat, different than
training for State or Local matches. For the Olympics,
you want the best of everything; rifle, ammo, etc.;
thereby, narrowing the variables down to just your
ability. For local or state matches, generally you
use what you can afford.
I am in a similar position as you, in that I recently
wanted to upgrade to a rifle that I would not soon
outgrow, and would keep me competitive in any match
that I might attend at the state or local level.
Also, I had less than $1,500 to spend.
I purchase a used Anschutz rifle, because everyone
that I spoke with, and everthing that I read indicated
that the older rifles, in good shape and/or not
abused, are just as accurate as the newer rifles.
Consider this:
1. How much do you want to spend?
This will help point you in the direction of the
rifles that you need to look at, i.e. new or used,
and/or what options.
2. How competitive do you want to be? How many hours
do you have to train?
3. A used rifle will, probably, hold its value better
than a new one, should you choose to sell it or trade
up in the future.
4. Anschutz dominates smallbore, especially
International style. There are plenty of new and used
rifles, parts, stocks, etc. to choose from (another
good reason to stay with Anschutz if you decide to
sell or trade later).
Finally,
5. Training is the most important part of the
process!

Good luck and have fun.....
Cliff Calhoun

********************************************************************

>Dear Michael
>
>I wish to purchase a Unique X Concept Rifle but am not having any= joy-can
>you help?
>
>Andrew Piper
><mailto:hastingsglazing@paradise.net.nz&= gt;hastingsglazing@paradise.net.nz

[Editor - it was my understanding they went out of business so it will
likely be hard to find one.]

********************************************************************

We at the University of Utah Shooting Club are holding a Free Pistol Postal= match and we would like to invite you and your fellow shooters to= participate. I have received your e-mail addresses from our shooting coach= Matt Delong in hopes of drumming up more competition. We are holding this= postal match as a fundraiser to help us with traveling expenses to the= Collegiate National Championship match and also for our scholarship= endowment.

Hope you will participate,

Ron Kiiha - U of U Shooting Club

[Editor - Email Ronkiiha@aol.com for more info.]

********************************************************************
End of UIT Mailing List #8

Michael Ray - DBA & Systems Engineer
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach
UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm --=====================_1525342586==_.ALT--