From topshot@indy.net Thu May 11 01:07:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (really [127.0.0.1]) by cs.tcd.ie via in.smtpd with esmtp (ident dennehym using rfc1413) id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 01:07:07 +0100 (IST) Received: from mail.cs.tcd.ie by fetchmail-4.6.4 POP3 for (single-drop); Thu, 11 May 2000 01:07:07 IST Received: from pop1.indy.net (pop1.indy.net [199.3.65.111]) by relay.cs.tcd.ie (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA08112 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 01:07:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from ray_pc.indy.net (ip209-183-88-66.ts.indy.net [209.183.88.66]) by pop1.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14041; Wed, 10 May 2000 18:32:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.3.1.20000510172433.00bea490@pop.indy.net> X-Sender: topshot@pop.indy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:30:32 -0500 To: topshot@indy.net From: Michael Ray Subject: UIT Mailing List Vol. 4 - #19 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-UIDL: ~:!#!fh$#!@+R"!C~:!! Status: RO Content-Length: 12513 Lines: 273 Please e-mail address changes, unsubscribe requests, or submissions to me. In this issue: IZHMASH rifles? Ammo testing results Used junior rifles Machine rest Extension tubes Walther importer Sport rifle palm rest Stuff for sale list items needed ASAP Marksman House info Cheekpiece questions Training dilemma Stuff for sale ******************************************************************** Hello, has anyone had any experience with the IZHMASH smallbore rifles? There website is http://www.armament.com/izhmash.htm I was thinking about buying one, but it seems like no one has even heard of them... Adam Brzycki [Editor - Add me to that list. ] ******************************************************************** Four of us spent a few hours bench-testing ammo on Friday and we came up with some interesting results that I thought the other listmembers might find curious. The rifles were an interesting mix, with one almost brand-new 2013/690, a 2013 with stainless Shilen barrel, a Rem Model 40 with a stainless, locally-made barrel, and a stock 1413. Nothing shot well in the 2013/690, whether it was Tenex, Federal UM1 or even Lapua Master, although Eley Target was the most consistent (go figure). The 2013/Shilen absolutely loved a particular lot of Federal UM1, and did exceptionally well with another lot of UM1 too. The Remington liked the exact same lot of UM1 as the 2013 and did almost as well as the other lot, but didn't like any of the Tenex or Master we had on hand. Finally, my old 1413 took the Master we had and shot a group to rival that shot by the 2013/Shilen (and for half the price, yeah!). We had three lots of Tenex, one older and two newer, and while it shot well, it wasn't anything you'd whip your Visa card out for. We also had a lot of Match Extra Plus, and it shot well in all four rifles, but not really well enough compared to some of the others. The most impressive, though, was definitely the Federal UM1. The Federal 900B shot well enough for practise ammo in the 2013/Shilen and Remington, but didn't do well at all in the 2013/690. Has anyone else had a hard time finding a lot of any make that shot well in a new 2013? Jason Jarvis Kitchener, ON ******************************************************************** I just got an inquiry from a young aspiring shooter about getting started in smallbore position shooting. I've already taught him the basics, and he wants to purchase a rifle. Do you of anyone who may have a used Marlin 2000 or Weihrauch HW660 for sale out there? I don't know how much money he has available, but these should be in his price range. Thanks, Larry R. [Editor - see Neal Johnson's (I saw a 2000) or the last item in this list for some Achievers.] ******************************************************************** This is Manuel in Brownsville, Texas. Listen I know its been a long time since I told you I would have some of these ammo test deals (like the Russian machine rest one) at Benning. Well finaly the guy in mexico got them for me. Troy Bassham will be selling them. If you need to get hold of him, this is his # 334-298-7610. I think he will be selling them for about 240.00 or 250.00 some thing like that. Thanks ******************************************************************** Thanks for your answer, it really helped me a lot. Now I would like to know what your concept is about using extension tubes for air and smallbore rifles (MEC and anschutz tubes). Do you think it is worth getting them or this could be an useless acquisition? Guido Lastra Bogota, Colombia [Editor - if your hold is good or for prone only, they may help out by improving your sight picture and allowing you to see more movement. See if you can borrow someone's and decide for yourself.] ******************************************************************** This might not be worth forwarding onto the mailing list if you can answer this from your database... I'm looking to get a Walther GSP in the near future. I'd prefer to get it from the importer (or as close to it as possible) in order to cut out most of the middle men (and their price inflation). Who would I go to for this? I've seen them in Champions Choice, but I cannot believe that they would be the only Level-1 distributor... --- Jeffrey L. Bromberger [Editor - that's the only one I know of, but you may also check out Nygord's since he specializes in pistols.] ******************************************************************** I wonder if you could answer a question about palm rests for offhand shooting, or refer me to someone who can. My daughter has a 2012 with the "2x3 slab" kind of palm rest. She finds it a bit too thin. I suppose I could shim it up a bit, but what I'd really like to do is buy her the highly adjustable palm rest that comes with the XX13 men's free rifles. However, I'm worried that there might be a good reason her 2012 comes with that particular palm rest. Do the UIT rules for women's rifles permit the use of the more adjustable palm rests, or must she use the 'slab'? Is it permissible to shim the 'slab'? Thanks for you help, Mike [Editor - anything goes as long as the whole gun with accessories is less than 6.5kg. I agree that rest is pretty much useless for most people. FYI, the complete rules are online at the ISSF website.] ******************************************************************** It's time to start compiling the next edition of Stuff for Sale, which I expect to be ready in time for Wenatchee. Please send me whatever info you have on items you're selling....you've all seen the format. Need it ASAP in order to make my deadlines. FYI, Stuff for Sale is also out there on the web, on a new website for smallbore shooters. Check out the following site (it's long....you'll want to bookmark it): http://website.mciworld.com/~washrifle@mciworld.com/index.htm. Once you get into the index, click on Stuff for Sale. It's updated much more often than the hardcopy or e-mail editions. John Crossman Steilacoom, Washington jcrossman@thurston.com ******************************************************************** Dear Sir, I totally enjoyed your intro for the new shooter. I am from Trinidad West Indies and have been bitten by the small bore rifle shooting bug. I have been searching for a good jacket/trousers to do air and 3 position small bore shooting. I have heard of the Korean outfit and would like to get in touch with them . Can you foward the E mail address for AKA marksman house or any info which may help me to get in touch with them.???? Regards, Mark Ackrill [Editor - I'd have no idea of where you would normally buy your stuff from. They are hard to get here in the US. Perhaps someone else on the mailing list will know.] ******************************************************************** Hi everyone, please excuse my ignorance, and lack of knowledge or experience but I'm relatively new at 3P rifle shooting and enjoying it. I'm curious about a few things so I'd like to ask you all a number of questions. Why is there a difference in rifle stock configuration or design between a prone rifle (for english matches I believe) and a standard rifle (usually found in bigbore 300M 3P matches or in the women sporting rifle events)? I realize that there is certain rules and conditions that we must conform to i.e. no palm rest on standard rifle making the dimension depth of the forend (forestock) abnormaly thicker than a prone or free rifle. But for those who just shoot prone what kind of disadvantage or advantage (if any) would there be if they shot only with a standard rifle? Furthermore, what is the purpose of an adjustable cheek piece on a rifle butt? How does one adjust to a cheek piece in the different positions? How much facial pressure should I put on a cheek piece? I know that comfort is somewhat of a factor in the process of adapting to a rifle butt but what are the pros and cons of an adjustable cheek piece? Thanks for the help. Your humble novice. Lana [Editor - for your first question, I'd say there isn't a distinct advantage or disadvantage to using a standard vs prone stock. The prone stock is made for it of course, but the standard stock may fit you better. All women used to have to use the standard stock. Adjustable cheekpieces are essential for allowing a good position. In prone and kneeling, you should be able to rest your head onto the stock without holding with your neck muscles. That is the ideal. You may need to use some to keep it from tilting off to the side. Anyway, once you've done that, it is unlikely that your eye will be aligned with the sights. You then move the cheeckpiece so that it IS aligned when you naturally rest your head on the stock. Once you are somewhat proficient in the position, a good test is to shoot without the rear sight. If you keep your shots in the black, you know you are placing your head pretty consistently and the cheekpiece is in the right spot. You would do this for each position, which I would think is a bit of a pain for standard rifle. Or figure out where is ideally needs to be for each position and then compromise somewhere in the middle.] ******************************************************************** TRAINING DILEMMA Is there a reason that after a long period of rest lets say 2 to 3 weeks of not shooting that when returning on the first day of training scores are higher than the previous practice averages or competition scores. I've noticed over the years that after taking a break in shooting and then returning to my training my score would be higher higher than usual but only for a day or two. Why is this or have I just momentarily peaked? Recently I seriously trained and practiced over a four month period for an air rifle competition. My performance was satisfactory but felt I could of done better only if I would of practiced more. After the meet I took some vacation and didn't even think about shooting for a two week period. On the first day I got back to my practice the results were outstanding and had scores I never thought I could do. Now I have a dilemma, although this doesn't always happen when I take time off i.e. like during the X-Mas holidays ( 2 weeks also) would it be wise to take a long rest period before a big competition so that I may get the same effects and conditions or follow my training plan in the hopes I could reach my peak performance? I've experienced peak performance before but not as much as taking time off and then getting great results. As an added note of interest I've also seen this in other shooters especially in service rifle matches where you see some veteran shooters who barely or have no practice arrive on the range sight their weapon, shoot the competition, and still manage to place in the top ten if not first. In the mean time your wondering why your practicing so much and struggling just to make it to the finals. Whats up and what do you recommend? J.L.C. [Editor - my guess is you're burned out and not really concentrating over weeks of intense training. You then let your mind and body have a break so they are refreshed. Your first practices back you really focus on the fundamentals and concentrate to make sure you do things the way you were so you have an excellent performance. You do well so you start trying too hard and your performance goes down. It's all in your head IMHO.] ******************************************************************** Folks: After trying to get a smallbore program started here in Utah, and after finally getting frustrated to the point of no return, I'm getting out of smallbore and have a bunch of stuff for sale. You may be interested in the FWB 600, or the Anschutz prone gun on the attached list, or some of the other stuff. If so, send me an email and we can talk, or pass it on to someone you may know. I've also got a bunch of other stuff, like spotting scopes, stands, and all the rest which are not listed, but let me know what you need and we can work a very good deal. Thanks. Craig Johnson CJohnson@pblutah.com [Editor - please contact Craig directly. He's got a bunch of Achievers and several other rifle and a few pistols for sale.] ******************************************************************** End of UIT Mailing List #19 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm