From topshot@indy.net Tue Jan 25 17:38:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (really [127.0.0.1]) by cs.tcd.ie via in.smtpd with esmtp (ident dennehym using rfc1413) id (Debian Smail3.2.0.102) for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:37:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.cs.tcd.ie by fetchmail-4.6.4 POP3 for (single-drop); Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:37:46 GMT Received: from dux2.tcd.ie (dux2.tcd.ie [134.226.1.24]) by relay.cs.tcd.ie (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03766 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:24:33 GMT Received: from pop1.indy.net (pop1.indy.net [199.3.65.111]) by dux2.tcd.ie (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16193 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 03:38:56 GMT Received: from ray_pc (ip209-183-88-122.ts.indy.net [209.183.88.122]) by pop1.indy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA27638; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:05:25 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000124220636.00a1eb40@pop.indy.net> X-Sender: topshot@pop.indy.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:06:36 -0500 To: topshot@indy.net From: Michael Ray Subject: UIT Mailing List Vol. 4 - #12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO Content-Length: 18106 Lines: 405 Please e-mail address changes, unsubscribe requests, or submissions to me. In this issue: Re: Need LH rear sights Re: Need LH rear sights 2002 stock breakage Canting SCATT web site down? Hammerli 280 replacement LH Freeland's handstop Re: Looking for shooting books Re: Looking for shooting books Re: Looking for shooting books Re: Wrist joint pain Re: Wrist joint pain Re: Wrist joint pain Followup to wrist joint pain Re: Walther AL stock / Need LH rear sights / wrist joint pain Re: 1913 vs. 2013 (AL stock) / changing pellets / airgun range plans / shooting books Re: Walther AL stock Re: 1913 vs. 2013 / Gehmann irises ******************************************************************** In regards to the inquiry regarding left-handed sights, I too have been dissatisfied with the quality of factory sights, notably Anschutz. I have been using the Warner sight for about 8 years and have found its quality to exceed that of any other sight available. I have a fixture on which I mount sights and can check their travel with a dial indicator. No sight comes close to the Warner for consistency of movement per click, zero backlash, reversal of direction and return to zero. Alan Warner makes the sights with 1/8 moa, 1/4 moa or 1/2 moa clicks. Of course these values are also dependent upon your sight radius. They take all normal European accessories. You can contact Alan at wtc@top.monad.net Of course, he also makes them right-handed, but who would want that? The sight is about $425 and an adapter to mount it on the Anschutz is about $40 from Champion Shooters Supply or Ernest. German Salazar ******************************************************************** Having acquired some time ago a jig which allows me to measure accurately to a tenth of a thou (0.0001in/0.0025mm) the movement of the rear sight per click, I have scared myself and shooting friends half to death checking my and their rear sights. The problem with rear sights is that you never know, unless you check, just how accurate and consistent they are. Very often, particularly with well used sights, it is the first one or two clicks which do not move consistently. With one set of my sights if I had to make a one- or two-click correction, I had to move four clicks and return two or three just to take up the slack. In my case the outcome was that even after repair by Anschuetz I still threw away one Anschuetz rear sight and downgraded another. In my opinion there is just one way to go: Haemmerli rear sights, I know of none better. I now use them both on my smallbore and 300 m rifles. They are superbly consistent and accurate and ... expensive but for peace of mind worth every penny. Shop around as you can get some good deals on them. Richard Danik ******************************************************************** I would like to ask every one if they have had or heard of any one having a problem with the Anschutz 2002 compressed air rifle laminated stock breaking around the pistol grip. We have 4 shooters that have 2002's and 3 out of the four have had the stock break in the same place. The funny thing is they did not break with the lamination, one of them after being repaired broke again about an inch pass the repair. I have also heard of at least 2 college shooters that had the same problem. All of the rifles did break after flying with them, I know what an airline can do to your rifles but when 2 rifles are in the same case and only the 2002 comes apart and no other rifle 22 or air breaks I have to wonder if there is a problem with the stocks. I spoke to two well known Anschutz retailers and both say that they have not heard of a problem. Again I know what an airline can do to rifles but usually there is some exterior signs of ruff handling on the case or both rifle have some damage. So if any one has heard of this happening to anyone else I would like to know . I just found out that West Virginia had a few Anschutz 2002 laminated stocks break at once on there return from Germany. Thanks Rich Allaire [Editor - I have seen 2 or 3 (at least one wasn't laminated) standard rifle or air rifle stocks at Neal Johnson's that had this failure mode. If they break, that is where it will happen.] ******************************************************************** I am a colombian rifle shooter, member of Bogota Team, and a great admirer of your page. I have found many interesting items and discusssions in your site. Nonetheless, I think the discussion about canting does not seem to be settled, at least in what concerns to .22 50m shooting. Could you please send me the current concepts about canting in prone, knelling and standing positions? Thank you and again congratulations for your excellent work. Guido Lastra Gonzalez Bogota, Colombia South America [Editor - I don't believe it was ever resolved. While most of us on the list found no problem with canting the rifle whatever was needed to fit your position (as long as you do it consistently), there were a couple who believe you should not cant at all. I would say try both as best you can for a few weeks and use whichever method performs better for you.] ******************************************************************** Have been trying to track down scatt.com lately and am not getting anything other than a 404. Have you got any info on where they may now be? I heard the guy who designed it has moved to Holland??? Ross [Editor - it was working a few weeks ago, but their e-mail did bounce on the last issue so they may be down for a while.] ******************************************************************** Thanks very much for maintaining your mailing list with the excellence that you do. I am thoroughly enjoying it. As you may remember, I used to be more of a rifle shot than a pistol man and so would like your advice on the following. As I have had better than average performance at the 25m .32 pistol event using my friends Hammerli 280, I was looking into getting one for myself. However, I have heard that there is a new model in the market and the 280 (.22/.32) has been discontinued. Therefore, my question is have you had any experience with the new model/old model/different manufacturers (Walther,FWB etc) in this event? I think I'm pretty serious about getting seriously involved in the event and so would appreciate any insight from you and/or fellow list members. Thanks a lot. Samir [Editor - as I am not a pistol shooter, hopefully the others on the list can fill you in.] ******************************************************************** Michael. I am left handed and would like to know if the old Freeland type handstop is still available in the U.S. as they tell me in U.K. it is no longer available. Regards, Bob Mallet. [Editor - yes, see http://www.championshooters.com/start.html ] ******************************************************************** [Editor - many others also mentioned the NSRA so I'll only include this comment.] The English translations of the Heinz Reinkemeier books were done for the British governing body when Bill Murray was the Director of Coaching in the UK. I suspect that they are still available from the NSRA (of GB) - look on their website (http://www.nsra.co.uk) for contact details, or call their shop on (0)1483 485510. Anybody know when/where the English version of "Wege Des Gewehrs" will be available? Donald McIntosh [Editor - the last I heard from the US importer was this spring.] ******************************************************************** I got my copies of Reinkemeir's book from HQ Moody at NRA Training. I think they are still available from NRA, but I don't know that for certain. The English translation was originally published by England's National Smallbore Rifle Association, so they may still be a source. Bill Kelley USNA Rifle ******************************************************************** I checked everyone I could think of including the Library of Congress and the only place I found a listing for the books was at Blackwells in London. They list volume 1 as being available in 4-6 weeks at a price of 9.75 pounds. Volume 2 they have list but have no availability information. Their web site is available via yahoo searching on Blackwells. Best rmw ******************************************************************** Re the left hand wrist pain of the BSA Martini shooter: I had much the same problem with various rifles, and I am just slightly younger than his 57 years. I would suggest trying an offset handstop. The "new" model Anschuetz handstop (must have appeared 10 years ago) can be adjsuted to offset to the right or left. Also Gehman has a new model that allows extensive adjustments of offset and size of stop. Sometimes forend width -- if the hand is small -- forces the palm to be unnatuarlly flat and prevents relaxation of the wrist. Also I have seen some English rifles with rails offset to the left. Furthermore, a heavy rifle is not (in contrast to conventional wisdom) really needed for prone. I would recommend flutting the barrel -- this will cost from $75 USD to $150 USD -- and looks cool; tests with a machine rest show that stress relief of smallbore barrels (by freezing) is not really needed after fluting -- just have the barrel bead blasted to relieve surface tension. Finally wrist strenghtening exercises with graduated weights as your stength improves will help a lot!! If interested ,I can send the BSA shooter a description of the exercises or he can visit a hand therapist. (You need a 3,5,8,10, ...,20 lb series of small dumbells for the exercise program.) Terry ******************************************************************** Your description of where the pain is occuring leaves a number of options. Technically, outside left wrist from the anatomical position would be superior to the thumb. The first thing that occurs to me is that the problem may be in the elbow and not the hand. You may wish to try adjusting how your elbow is resting on the mat and on your knee if it is pushing along either side of the elbow. This could be putting pressure on the nerve causing pain distally to the pressure point. Just a thought. rmw ******************************************************************** I am a female smallbore prone shooter and like Rich suffer from terrible wrist joint pain even now, many years after taking a break from competition shooting. The cause of the pain seemed to be attributed to the use of a handstop which was a little too big for my hand (as well as a rigorous training and competition schedule). After I experimented with different stops, the pain was alleviated slightly, but not completely. I had many visits to the physio and their opinion was that the constant pressure and movement in the area surrounding my thumb, first finger and wrist had led to inflamed tendons and a reccuring case of tendonitis. The solution put forward was for me to undergo ultrasound therapy and massage which I did and found to be pretty helpful as far as temporary relief is concerned, but I still haven't found anything that has 'fixed' my wrist for good. My suggestion would be to see a physiotherapist as mine taught me some very helpful wrist exercises that were a blessing during competition matches. Good Luck. Brie ******************************************************************** A follow-up to my question about wrist pain. Several months ago I made a 30 degree template to see if I was breaking the NRA prone rule. My wife was the judge and she wasn't sure because its hard to tell where the line is especially with a shooting coat on. I then shortened my sling one notch for a little insurance. So now I have put the sling back where it was, one notch longer and moved the handstop out about 1/4 inch. I can tell I now have less bend in the wrist and it feels better. Such a slight change! So hopefully my wrist will heal in a few weeks. I still must be careful and not make sudden moves. So I plan to stay like this until someone complains if they do. I'm not sure I'm violating the rule or not and don't really care if its causing the pain. At least I may heal so if I do need to change my sling shorter at least then I maybe able to complete the match because my wrist will hopefully be healed. Its such a subjective measurement I wonder how any match official could complain unless its way under 30 degrees. Any comments? Rich ******************************************************************** Michael, I sent you a very long summary of my feelings (positive and negative) on the Walther aluminum stock and the barrel they include with it - do you still have it and could you forward it to this shooter please? [Editor - see Vol 2 #35 in the archives.] I would also like to add that I spoke with one of the Walther technicians about this rumour that a Walther aluminum stock broke at the handstop rail, and I was told that it was a one-time occurrence only. Thus no shooter should worry about it. In fact, they should be worried a heck of a lot more if they are using a wooden stock.... If one has an excellent 19-series Anschutz, the new aluminum stock is the way to go. However, they are very light in the back and some weight may have to be added (try solder wire or a very heavy buttplate). Bob, I have used Feinwerkbau rear sights on Walther rifles, so maybe try Walther? Rich, Is the pain coming from the sling pressing against the back of your hand, or is it coming from being pressed against the handstop? Also, what type of glove are you using? If the pain is from the sling, then your handstop is probably too shallow. Find a handstop in which the sling attachment point is about 1 -1.5 inches below the rail. Kadjebikov of Russia uses a handstop that looks about 2 inches deep!!! Re: gloves: I recently switched to the Kurt Thune model 'Solid' glove which has white rubber on the glove. this material works well in distributing the pressure of the sling on the back of your hand (which I gather is the problem) over a wider area. The more popular 'Top Grip' rubber does not distribute the pressure nearly as much. Good luck in dealing with an age-old problem... Wayne Sorensen Canadian Shooting Team ******************************************************************** I handled the alum stocked Anschutz's at the SHOT Show in L.V. this week and I thought that they were very heavy, compared to some of the other rifles that I have handled in the past few years. I have no comment on the barrel length, but I would think that the slightly shorter one would help with balance and keep you from having to lean backward to counter the muzzle weight. Wish I could afford a new one. [Editor - all I can say is the one I felt at Neal Johnson's which had the full barrel was definitely lighter than the 1913 I use.] As for pellets; I have used all kinds in my old FWB 300 and now my Anschutz 2002 Super Air, and I have found very little difference in them. I have used some cheap pellets and expensive ones, and unless you are working for your national team or at the Olympics/World Championship, etc, it makes no difference as far as I can see. I also think sizing is a waste of time. I have even, as an experiment, taken a pellet and mashed the skirt flat, inserted it into the rifle, and had it go into the same group as the undamaged pellets. Just a personal observation. To Geoffrey Mullen: Contact Bruce VanderZanden of Redmond, OR at OACN@aol.com and ask him about the air gun holders that they use for matches, etc. I have shot on them and they work fine, and are movable so that you can store them, etc. To: Heikki: I think those two are out of print or not available right now. I have been selling them, but the NSRA no longer has them in stock and I have not been able to find another source. I do have the Olympic Target Rifle book, if you are interested. I do have videos that follow along pretty much with the two books you asked about. If you are interested in anything in the competitive shooting sports coaching/shooting field, my library probably has it. If you want more info, contact me at Don Williams, bawilli@ibm.net and I can let you know more details. Don Williams, Oregon ******************************************************************** Mike, the problem we experienced was with a Walther stock. The rail was molded from what appeared to be sintered aluminum and a big chunk of rail just snapped off while one of our juniors was shooting. The stock was cheerfully replaced and the new one hasn't had any problems in almost 7 months of use. ******************************************************************** 1913 vs. 2013 I seems to me that the overriding advantage of a 2013 over a 1913 is an ability to change barrels. After you have found an exceptional ammo, you put it aside and save for the big matches. Well why not pull the barrel off and save it for the big match as well. [Editor - I wasn't aware you could easily swap barrels on the 2000 series. How do they manage such repeatability?] Gehmann irises I have been using a Gehmann iris for about 4 years now, at first I had zero change problems. Then I noticed that the iris has some depth, and is not just a plane like a fixed iris. As you move the sight up and down it does not compensate for the angular change between the iris and the front sight causing the front sight not to be centered in the rear sight. I really noticed this at long range (+40 minutes). The solution is as Chet has stated for other reasons is to make sure that your eye is centered in the rear aperture first. It may be that the front sight is not centered in the rear sight, but this seems to be OK. It is better that having moving zeros. Chuck Whipple ******************************************************************** End of UIT Mailing List #12 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm