In this issue: Re: calling the shot Re: calling the shot Re: Blackhawks Re: Blackhawks UIT air pistol pics and info? Re: calling the shot ******************************************************************** Dear Michael, Once again I feel urged to respond to some things that I read in the last UIT Mailing list (#37). To start off, I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and keeping that in mind I can overlook some of the comments made by "Coach" Chet Skinner as merely that, opinion. But to continue on to say the scores fired by our Olympians and International competitors on the National or development teams are mediocre really is lame. I don't know who Skinner coaches, and I really don't need to know - but having returned recently from the USOTC and spending a great day with Dan Durban, Bob Foth and others discussing some of the very topics brought up in UITML #37 - I must say that I have a sour taste in my mouth when I read his comments. We are not perfect. Period. And young shooters especially have already got alot of room for doubts and misgivings on their abilities. To train them to not accept anything but perfection is a flawed line of reasoning. Ask any sports psycologist about the problems that "superkids" have when they grow up a little and aren't so super anymore; they are not equipped to cope with the effects that losing, or poor performances bring. It is not a good scenerio for anyone involved - parents, children, coaches, etc. Skinner's perfect world mental training may work for a competition hardened international athelete, but I wouldn't want him teaching my kid in that manner. I hope that you continue to print Skinner's comments and conjecture, for as I stated before everyone is entitled to opinion (and I am sure they generate alot of response), and you (Michael) are gracious enough to provide a forum for open discussions such as these. But remember everyone, that these are just Skinner's opinions. And as long as they are stated as that, I will continue to read them and respond with my own. Good shooting to all, Patrick Rowling [Editor - aside from our shotgunners, we don't have any other shooting athletes consistently in the top 8 of international competitions - this is what I think Chet considers mediocre.] ********************************************************************* As I received UIT List #38, I am glad I had my leather shooting jacket on as it was the only thing to protect me from the shots coming at me from Coach DJ...Any way let us consider his offerings and see if we can make any impact on the two shooting conditions, physical and mental domains. First of all let me advise you of a single fact about Calling-the-shot. William Krilling and Robert Mitchell in the book "Shooting for Gold," is some what remiss in discussing Calling-the-shot. In fact the two top International coaches failed to consider Calling-the-shot in the physical domain as a useful item of interest to shooters by completely omitting it from their book. In review of the book page 32 last paragraph they did consider it while using mental technique. This is further reinforced on page 33, item 5, "and mentally call-the-shot placement"(perfect bull's-eye). Calling the shot is a mental function in the mental domain and not an external activity. Kinesthetic responses are involved and the responses are transmitted to the non-dominant mental entity for analysis and necessary corrective action prior to firing the one-shot-match. Second, within the book "The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Shooting," Appendix D, page 5, paragraph titled "Calling-the-shot,"(fourth paragraph); Appendix C, page 4 to 7. The reader will note the discussion on calling-the-shot. In addition Chapter Two discusses the Active or Motor activities and Chapter One discusses the Kinesthetic response system. Chapter Four develops a mental practice system for the shooting athlete. Coach DJ is commended on the efforts to defend the Calling-the-shot, however Coach DJ's own comments condemn the effort. When they can be considered on there own merits, it is clear that Calling-the-shot is an incorrect procedure that is misplaced and misused. Kinesthetic responses are involved and the responses are transmitted to the non-dominant mental entity for analysis and necessary corrective action prior to firing the one-shot-match. >Has Skinner ever shot outdoors? Yes...I have, shot the perfect four position using 30.06 Cal , UIT 3p , 308 Cal, during the 1954 to 1976 period. Shooting athlete and coach, Marksmanship training unit. Instructor of UIT rifle, pistol, and ShotGun. Instructed the AMU Ft Benning in The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Shooting. Questions....? ******************************************************************** There are several "clubs" that are comprised of very good shooters who do not live anywhere near each other. They are most evident at Camp Perry, the most well-known ones are the "Stinknicks" and the "Blackhawks" (not to be confused with the Cherry Creek, CO team). Another that I haven't seen much recently is the "Eastern Beavers." They are legal clubs per NRA rules. Last I saw, Eastern Beavers dues were $10 for 10 years. Some people might want to debate their legitimacy, but I wouldn't bother -- they've been around for decades and are an accepted element of NRA competition. ****************************************************************** Don't forget about the Blackhawks Smallbore Club. I believe that they are still active. When I was a member (1950's) it was a national "invitational" membership group. I think this is the group that is in question. Since I have worked with the CC Blackhawks, and am a member of both clubs, I do believe that the national group is what your reader is refering to. Allen (ShootX) ****************************************************************** I was wondering if you have any pictures of UIT Men's Air Pistol. It would be nice to that on the page. I always was interested in the types of stance Olympic level shooters use. And do you know of any articles pertaining to UIT Air rifle on the net(tips on how to shoot, beginner's guide to UIT air rifle, that sort of stuff) out in the net that I could find. I'm setting up a webpage for my university's shooting team and I would like to address the needs of our rifle shooters to the same degree as I have the pistol dudes. Your help would be greatly appreciated. [Editor - see the 'air pistol home page' created by one of our list dwellers - you can reach it from the 'shooting links' section of my page.] ****************************************************************** Have given this piece much thought and I find I must comment on the coach's remarks in reference to Calling-the-shot. So read on and we will develop this together. Top shooters all want to put all shots in the middle (10.9). Due to the many variables (outdoors) affecting the actual impact of the shot, you must accurately "call" the shot based on the conditions of wind etc. so that if it did not impact the middle of the target you can damn well adjust if necessary and put the next one in the center. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: The comments are made in the physical domain and have nothing to do with the mental functional abilities of the shooting athlete. Calling the shot reinforces the concept that all should go in the middle! As the coaches who have responded are saying, it is critical to teach kids early on this skill so that they can learn to react to the conditions properly in their drive to shoot a 10.9 every time. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: On the surface this sounds OK for coach's to use and teach this technique, however, psychologically it is the wrong method for accomplishing the goal. Calling-the-shot does reinforce a concept of making adjustments after the shot is fired, however, it is not after the shot is fired that the shooting athlete is worried about, it is the shot to be fired that is causing the athlete the trouble of the moment. The shooting athlete must make any and all adjustments prior to the shot being fired, not after. Fire the shot and forget it as if the athlete calls the shot the information received in calling the shot is old information that is needed for the shot just fired and not the next shot. New shot requires new information not old information from the old shot. To receive a 10.9 you must first make every effort to correct all incorrect actions or functions BEFORE firing the One-shot-match. Not after.... when the information can not do the shooter a bit of good. Calling the shot can be used in a positive manner to reinforce the mental program of shooting for the perfect shot. Shots on call are a powerful reinforcement and confidence builder. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: Calling-the-shot reinforces only bad and incorrect shooting habits and is always found being used by physical shooters that fail to correctly use the mental domain for control and shooting procedures. To put the shot in the middle every time, one must first learn where the shot is going to go based on how they shoot and then strive for the consistency and perfection necessary to let them be 10.9's. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: Wrong, (on how they shoot) should read "based upon kinesthetic responses prior to firing the one-shot-match and "...............and so on. On outdoor ranges the conditions can change very quickly. You must check conditions immediately after firing the shot to see if what you attempted to shoot in remained consistent. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: " This allows the accurate call of the shot." Not really, the above paragraph does not allow anything. It only says you must gather information on the outside weather conditions after the shot and not before... Nothing more. This allows the ongoing strive for perfection in shooting the shots in a course of fire. There are many times in many conditions where you must shoot the best shot that you can, dealing with the given variables of wind, light, timing, relaxation etc. The Final is a great example. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: "There are many times in many conditions where you must shoot the best shot that you can, dealing with the given variables of wind, light, timing, relaxation etc.". This sentence, when read closely, tells the shooting athlete it is OK to fire in a mediocre manner as the coach implies that your shots will not be good shots but, only the best you can under the circumstances. This is teaching the shooting athlete how not to be a winning shooter. The winning athlete does not allow the weather to beat them, but the world class shooting athlete beats the weather. You don't have the luxury of time. You must compress the best mental program you can execute, the best read of the conditions, the best placement of the shot in regards to that read of wind, light etc. and let yourself execute the shot in that 75 second time frame. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: The shooting athlete has one and 3/4 of a second to fire the perfect bull's-eye because at 2 seconds the athlete will break the circuit and start again. Only shooters shooting in the physical domain will have the privilege of sleeping for 75 seconds during the competition. If you have done all you can to execute a 10.9 and the shot impacts somewhere else, you must figure out why it happened. This allows you to learn how to shoot the 10.9 on the next shot while dealing with the given variables. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: The World Class shooting athlete knows before attempting the shot where the 10.9 bull's-eye is. The athletes learns this in basic class and not at competition time. The mental shooting athlete knows exactly where the 10.9 perfect bull's-eye is and what it is. To ignore the impact or write it off as "never should have shot it" does nothing to improve the next performance. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: Once the shot is fired there is not a thing anyone can do about it and the hole can not be moved. So why waste your time with it as you have better things to do with your time. Pull the trigger through the last step follow through and forget it as it is now the problem of the score keeper and the shooting athlete is not in the score keeping business.. forget it...! I wonder if some of this discussion is a discussion over semantics. In a perfect world, on a perfect range, in perfect conditions, in unlimited time, using a perfect human with perfect reflexes and mental processes, with perfect equipment, yes, one could argue that anything less than a 10.9 should never have been executed. If the discussion is hinging on when to call (or evaluate) the shot (before vs. after looking in the scope), I believe you must call it before you look in the scope. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: And what can you do once looking through the scope. Nothing, so forget it. Leave the scope alone if you are still hitting the target. I am going to get hit on this one but it is true. Except for validating your zero, the scope has no useful purpose. Conditions change so quickly outdoors that you must evaluate them immediately after executing the shot to see if there was any change in the variables you evaluated and attempted to shoot in. If you don't, good luck on figuring out where to execute the next shot. Looking in the scope first wastes time in which the wind may have changed from the execution point. It also can push emotional reactions to the impact of the shot into the evaluation of the shot. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: This paragraph isn't worth a comment as the writer does quite will in giving the worth of the scope Calling the shot gives you the best logical evaluation so that the next shot can be put in the middle. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Reply: This is the most incorrect statement a knowing person can make. The point of reference is incorrect as the analysis is accomplished in the mental domain and not in the physical domain. Shooting athletes beware...If you Call-the-shot your efforts will be blocked and may never achieve your goal in shooting as calling-the-shot is nothing more than a psychological block from continued advancement in the shooting arena. Calling-the-shot is one of the will known elements of match pressure originated for the purpose of eliminating other shooting athletes prior to shooting competition. Why would Coach DJ want you to call-the-shot...? It will keep your scores low and will generally force the shooter or block the shooting athlete from achieving higher scores. In this way Coach DJ can insure you will not be a threat to his team or any of his shooters. Of course if he forces his shooters to use Calling-the-shot then you don't have to worry about his shooters as they will not threaten your competitive scores. Crazy world isn't it...? Let us review a couple of psychological aspects of this and see why calling-the-shot is incorrect procedure. Kinesthesia is defined as: Senses mediated by end organs(nerve endings) located in the muscle tissues, tendons, and joints and is stimulated by body movements and tensions. Also sensory experiences derived from the accomplishment of mental analysis and mental practice when data is collected from the non-dominant mental memory element. Kinesthetic informational data is always received from internal sources and never from external sources. Senses is defined as: a capacity for effective application of the powers of the mind(non-dominant mental entity)as a basis for action or a response. Internal sensed data received from the internal body elements and transmitted to the non-dominant for analysis and implementation in cases where adjustments are necessary during the shooting process. Kinematics is defined as: Branch of dynamics that deals with aspects of motion apart from considerations of mass and force. Thus, the non-dominant instructions and directives to the neurophysical systems are defined as kinematic functional activity. In the case of Calling-the-shot, the five physical senses receive from external sources and transmit to the dominant mental entity. This misinformational data is not generally usable for the origination of a new shooting sequence and position. It is flawed information in that it will show bad shot results and other misleading information of the external world from the stand point of the shot just fired. If the shooting athlete is communicating such information into the mind then it is taking all of the mental capacity available to the non-dominant mental entity for analysis and the generation of the new shooting position and related mental activity. Therefore, Calling-the-shot is match pressure function for destroying the mental abilities for preparing the new one-shot-match and achieve superior performance by the shooting athlete. The functions of kinesthetic and kinematics occur just before the shot is fired and not after. In the case of Calling-the-shot, the physical sensed data is derived from old and no longer current informational data that was defined by the shot just fired and is outdated external information. The external information is incorrect for mental generation of the kinematics commands and instructions to the neurophysical systems. The correct informational data is obtained from the non-dominant memory elements which is pure and acquired during the mental practice sessions. Such informational data is pure and will analyzed during mental practice and analysis for the insertion into memory for later use as the model upon which to build the shooting position and accomplish the mental firing sequences defined within Chapter Seven. >From this discussion the shooting athlete can understand that Calling-the-shot stops the normal functioning of the mental process and disallows the mind to work upon the informational data required for the next one-shot-match. The shooting athlete will never accomplish superior performance by Calling-the-shot. For those wishing to learn more about the mental domain of shooting, read chapters 1 through 7 in the book, The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Shooting. Meecin@tnproweb.com. Questions....? Chet Skinner Coach meecin@tnproweb.com [Editor - I sense that this subject will continue to be debated around and around without ever going anywhere so I will suggest to those who have participated in it so far to e-mail each other directly (I will send an e-mail notifying the participants) and hash it out amongst themselves and bring a conclusion back to the list for the rest of us to enjoy. Now if we can find another topic that gets as much discussion, I'll be happy.] ****************************************************************** End of UIT Mailing List #39 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm