In this issue: Re: Kneeling advice Re: Kneeling advice Re: Kneeling advice Re: FWB 603 Re: "Successful Pistol Shooting" Re: Kneeling advice Re: FWB 603 Korean brand clothing address Help with pistol problem 1997 Milan World Cup real-time results ******************************************************************* Mike: Saw your message and wanted to see if I could help a little. I am not the best kneeling shooter around, but I do often get a real steady and solid position. Sad to say, I don't get it all the time. It is not due to the basic position, it is due to my overall state of health and the medicine that I take. Anyway, my kneeling, and the way I teach coaches about coaching and the coaching I do on my own, is that kneeling is basically the same as prone, only higher in the air. When I move from prone to kneeling, I leave the handstop in the same position. I move the butt plate down towards the middle of the butt plate mechanism, and I shorten my sling by 1/2 hole/notch. I have an old Anschutz sling with holes and a buckle, so in prone it is set on the second set of holes. In kneeling, I set one of them on the third hole, or a 1/2 hole adjustment. My position is fairly upright and I look through the sights with an erect head. When I start slumping down, my shots are wilder and off call. In any position, you have to have comfort, or as near as you can get it. If you are strained in any way, then the position is not correct! Adjust whatever you have to adjust to get a comfortable position, and your head more erect. If that means a high position, then so be it. Hope this helps. Don Williams. ******************************************************************* It sounds like you position is similar to mine, ( my eyebrow touches the sight) this is what I would do. * I would try to keep the low position * I would move the buttplate to a neutral position (down 2 to up 2). This will move the rifle higher and allow you head to come up some and alleviate some of your neck strain. * I would lengthen the buttplate to about 5 and leave the handstop where it is. (This weekend I shot a 300 yd prone match on the ISU reduced targets. Didn't do all that well, but I was testing ammo. I dropped a few for wind and in transition from different loads) Chuck Whipple ******************************************************************* I use sight blocks, too, and they help a bit. Regarding the lens touching the rear sight, I use a fairly "long" stock (i.e., I have my butt plate pulled out 6 "Anschutz Units." By way of comparison, this is perhaps 1 - 1.5 cm shorter than my prone setting.) This gives me adequate eye relief. Another thing I do to help head position is offset and cant the plate, similar to how one would do it for offhand. This helps me keep my head more erect. I sling below the triceps in prone and above the triceps in kneeling, so I can't comment on the sling length. Regarding position of the butt plate, I position the plate well above a neutral position (in fact, at maximum) in prone, and below neutral (about 4 of those Anschutz Units) in kneeling. It sounds like you have your plate above neutral in both positions. In kneeling, I think this might force you to strain to place your cheek on the stock. I would avoid changing the roll. It seems like this would only raise the entire position without changing the head/stock/sight alignment at all. Best of luck with your match! I hope it goes well. Tom ******************************************************************* The Shock absorber [on the 603] is intended to reduce the initial acceleration of the projectile which has apparently been found to reduce the movement of the gun when it is fired. The main reason you would have this model rather than a P70 is that you avoid the complications of an air bottle and the problems of IATA rules about carriage of compressed gases in aircraft and if you are going to a match somewhere can you be certain you can fill the air tank on arrival? especially if you are going to a remote area a long way from dive shops etc. Graeme Forbes FWB agent in Australia ******************************************************************** Just for your info: I have read "Succesful Pistol Shooting" by Seivers and Hickey and we are using their training program with excellent results. They do say in the forward that each chapter is self contained and that you only need to read one chapter to get the gist of their training methods. Especially with the young shooters I'm working with, the techniques really work. It gets them to accept responsibility for their own actions and the ability to break down each shot if it doesn't go where they think it should. Unlike the NRA six fundamentals of shooting which gives any teenager 7 excuses for not shooting well, their program makes the shooter responsible for only 2 things, precisely pointing and smoothly pulling. It stops the excuses and gets the kids accepting the responsibility for doing things right. Also, makes them capable of critiqueing themselves on each shot and therefor, able to be their own coach. ********************************************************************* Michael, I don't usually post much but I thought I would give it a try. You can reprint any portion of this you think may help other shooters. Your kneeling complaint is actually quite common with shooters that have not shot for some time and come back. I just went through the same problem and it seemed that the fine muscle control I had developed, just deteoriated and had to be refined. The stable position I once had, had no doubt deteoriated. Most shooters compensate for this by going to lower positions, physically holding the gun tighter, tensing unnecessary muscle groups and holding their breath longer then normal. Although this feels more stable, it produces inconsistant and unacceptable results. You might find that a higher position, although it feels unstable at this time, with practice, will yield superior and more consistant results. I had to go back to the basics, rebuild my position from the ground up, giving consideration to each individual aspect, and letting the fine muscle control redevelop. First when I started shooting again, I was very unstable, however with time and patience, the stability returned. KP ******************************************************************* Dear Mike The good shooters say they think the compensator [ of the 603] reduces vibration. Obviously we are talking about small improvements as there wasn't much there to begin with. There is a serious maintenance caution as the compensator must be kept completely dry. Cleaning procedures must assure that no solvent or other foreign material enters the compensator. Good shooting, Neal ******************************************************************* Re: mailing list #6 I would like to have the mailing address of where I can order the Korean Shooting coat. please print in your newsletter thank you. Aloha Hawaii [Editor - The US distributor is Troy Baker. 253 E. Aster St., Upland, CA, 91786. (909) 985-0366 though he's really bad about returning calls. He also does Mouche clothing.] ******************************************************************* Dear Michael, I have another shooting dilemma which I hope you could help me with. My problem is that my front sights and rear sights usually become misaligned. It seems that when I start lifting my pistol the front sight is equally spaced between the rear sights but when I reach the aiming area, my front sight shifts toward the left side of my rear sights (this leads to my shots/groupings to be on the left side). I have experimented on some solutions (e.g. shifting stance, neck stretching, slight grip alteration) but they seem to have no effect. I hope that you or some of your readers could offer some insight as to what's causing this and how I can correct it. Thanks very much. Art Cabinian [Editor - while I'm not a competitive pistol shooter, the way Art Sievers showed me was to make sure the grip was absolutely consistent from shot to shot as far as the angle the gun would make relative to your hand. He would put a mark on the backstrap which you were to align with a reference point on the web of your hand. Also, what do you care if they are aligned when not pointing at the target? You should align the gun in your hand after you have it on target. Make marks if you need to. If you can't consistently align it after you do this, you either don't have a consistent head position or arm position. Do all this fiddling unloaded, of course!] ******************************************************************** On occasion of the Shooting World Cup that will take place in Milan (Italy) from May 26th to June 3rd 1997, Nemo internet will publish, in real time on Internet, the data about the olympic finals concerning all the shooting specialities and the results of the preliminary heats for 10 meter shots. This publishing system, developed by mr. Luca Croci Candiani of Nemo Internet and already used in 1996 Italian competitions, can improve the spectacularity of the matches and can also give a real-time updating system together with prints for each athlete and competition. We are glad to remind you that this publishing system, and its use on Internet, is the first and unique real-time system in the world. This system offers an excellent and simple browse trought the site and a completeness of data. If you are interested in this system and you want to know further details of our work, please contact or mail us at: NEMO s.n.c. Corso Italia 54 - 20025 LEGNANO (MI) Tel./Fax. 0331-599.559 email: admin@nemo.it Web site: http://www.nemo.it Shooting Web site: http://www.nemo.it/shooting [Editor - I watched several events in real time last year. This is something YOU SHOULDN'T MISS if you are awake when it's going on. Of course, you can visit after the fact as well.] ******************************************************************** End of UIT Mailing List #28 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach UIT Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/index.htm