BTW - any comments that I throw in responding to your replies will be labeled as "[Ed note - ....]". I will generally not respond directly unless you ask me to. Also, for fear of thinking you may be on this list forever, I should say just send me a mail if you wish to unsubscribe to the list. I will mail a confirmation back to you. One last thing. You'll note that I will include the entire message you send me for distribution. I won't edit unless something seems inappropriate for the list in which case we can discuss it if you have a problem with that. In this issue: 1. Laminated stocks 2. Laminated stocks 3. Laminated stocks 4. Laminated stocks / ammo sorting / bedding options / clothing opinions **************************************************** "Practical", boy that will surely depend on the individual! I tend to follow your thinking Michael. With so many things to consider whilst shooting, as, concentration, breathing and even heart beat, I would put the effects of humidity and temperature on gunstocks of various materials down around # 106 ! I think a full length floating barrel attached only at the action, takes all effects of gunstock materials out of consideration. Phil --NEXT-- phil.hamilton@nashville.com http://www.nashville.com/~phil.hamilton/index.html ***************************************************** >I have the first question. I want to know if there's any practical >advantage to the laminated stocks that are popular on match air rifles. I >know they are effected less by temperature and humidity fluctuations, but >why would this have any effect for an air rifle? My Anschutz 2002 (which is >NOT laminated) action basically runs the entire length of the stock and has >a screw at each end. The barrel/sighting apparatus sits on top of that. I >do not see why having the stock change shape would effect performance when >my barrel is isolated from it by the large metal action. As you may remember, I have the 2001, if I remember correctly from the NRA show, the 2002 wasn't significantly different. On mine the entire real "action" is above the stock and should not be effected by movement of the wood. >A corollary to this is: why are laminated stocks NOT used much for >smallbore? Is it because people normally bed their actions? If so, why >does just a little fiberglass between the wood and action make much >difference? It would seem stock changes would still alter the tension >against the action, though in a more consistent manner. I think a >fiberglass stock is the way to go for smallbore. > >So tell me why a laminated stock is worth the extra money for an air rifle. >Thanks. I need to buy some very soon. Am thinking of the Walther LGM-2. The real reason laminates are becoming more popular is that while they're stable, they're also CHEAPER than "real" wood. Finding a blank the size of a entire stock without flaws and good grain is getting very expensive now days. Of course if you look at the price of the "real" smallbores nowdays, you'll see that you're paying for that nice wood. Overall, I do prefer the laminates. Not only do the look good, but they WORK! geoff beneze ************************************* * Visit Arizona Shooting Sports * * http://www.primenet.com/~geoffben * * BEAST gunsmithing, Target stands * * NRA Life Member * ************************************* [Ed. note - if laminated stocks are CHEAPER than normal wood stocks to make, why do they ALWAYS charge $50-200 more for one over the normal walnut or beech stocks? -MR] ***************************************************** Dear Mike My opinion on laminated stocks. First they are stronger than plain wood stocks and breakage is a problem. We sure repair a lot of them. As you said they are more stable and that is applicable to firearms as well. They are now available for air, standard and free rifles in the Anschutz line and selling well. Another benefit that may be as important as any is the colorful stocks. This sport must lose the weapon image if we are ever to receive any impartial coverage in the media and color of equipment helps a lot. Ref your comment about bedding. Professional bedding is a lot more than a little fiberglass between the wood and the gun. Glass bedding has become a generic term but we do not uses fiberglass anymore and haven't for many years. I agree that composite stocks are the best for firearms. I hope you are still looking around before you lock in on the Walther. Good shooting, Neal G. Johnson Gunsmithing, Inc www.databahn.net/nealjguns [Ed note - I have not heard of breakage being a problem in general. I don't see how it would break during normal use unless it was just plain defective. Do these people not handle their guns with care? I want to get Walthers because they are performing well for people on the USST and around the world and are much cheaper for me to buy here in the US than Anschutz or FWB. Also, I wasn't too impressed with the group tests you did for my 2002L (and I have confirmed on my bench), so I want to get a second gun for myself. -MR] *********************************************** I don't know if there would be a great advantage or not. I had also heard that they were less affected by changes in temperature and humidity. As to their lacking in smallbore. The only thing I can think of is that Anschutz (which dominates smallbore) didn't have a laminated stock until very recently. I did notice quite a few shooters in Atlanta using the new colored laminated stock. I have a question about ammunition. Is it worth the time and effort to: measure and sort smallbore ammunition by headspace and/or weight. Also, is it worth it to size pellets. Also, I am looking to have my rifle bedded sometime in late spring. I certainly do not trust any local gunsmiths. Where should I send it? Gunsmithing Inc? Hart? And I'm still looking at getting some new clothing in the spring. I'm leaning towards Sauer. Does anyone have experience with their clothing and if so what? Good Shooting, Mark [Ed note - I have never seen anyone checking their .22 ammo. I have heard of, seen and done pellet sizing in the past, but don't do it anymore. I talked to and watched several USST shooters who picked them straight from the match packs or tins. I didn't see anyone in Atlanta who looked like they sized their .22 or pellet ammo. However, it may be worth it to you psychologically to size them. -MR] ************************************************* End of UIT Mailing List #2 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach The Olympic Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/ Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach The Olympic Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/