In this issue: Re: offhand position Re: mental / offhand Re: used equipment Re: offhand position FWB 2602 (smallbore) experiences wanted ******************************************************************** Hi Michael, I'd just like to comment on this message that was posted on your list. > I hope that someone can advise me on a new Air Rifle position I'm trying at > the moment. I am a mid 560's Air Rifle shooter and have always shot in the > classic position ie. both legs straight, hip forward, but my right leg > always feels as if it wants to bend, holding it straight causes small muscle > twitches late in a match. Several years ago I saw Vessela Lechteva > (spelling??)shoot standing in Seoul, Korea and took photos of her position > which has all her weight on her front leg and her right leg bent and her hip > a long way forward. I am playing around with this position at the moment. It > feels comfortable but my hold is not all that good yet. Is this position > worth pursuing or should I stay with the tried and tested method. Any > comments on advantages or disadvantages would be appreciated. Someone else made a point that in the standing position stability is the most important issue to be considered. I agree completely. I find myself that if the weight distribution is shifted much to the right foot or the left foot one of my legs ends up fatigued more than the other by the time I reach the mid point of the match. I am also aware that many top notch shooters acheieve amazing results with their hip thrusted forward. My question to you is did you talk with Vessela Lechteva or her coach and find out exactly why she shoots like she does? The reason I ask is that when shooters are taught to shoot in the standing position they are taught a "standard" position and once they learn the standard position, if they are having problems with it, the coach must work with them to possibly adapt the position for the individual athlete. If a person has one leg much longer than the other wouldn't it look like they have their weight shifted to one side or the other but still have their weight balanced evenly on both feet? Many people with varying leg lengths use riser shoes/soles in every day life which I believe would be illegal according to UIT rules (correct me if I am wrong). The only other option is to adapt the position. As well, if a person has problems with their hip, maybe it was broken at some point and never healed correctly, or maybe some sort of bone problem or a mis-shaped bone, the position would have to be changed to accomodate the differences in physical structure. Now I am not saying that Vessela Lechteva has any physical problems, just that before making any radical changes to your own position and technique, it is important to find the reasons behind these methods. Research them carefully, and be very critical. Understand fully the consequences of the change and weigh out all the pros and cons of making the change. There are usually reasons behind radical deviations from the standard. I personally advocate the classic position of having the weight distributed evenly on both feet and for many people that means not thrusting the hip forward but it may, under certain circumstances, be necessary to make changes to the classic position. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth..... Take care and good luck with it. Gary Piercey ___________________________________ E-mail: garyp@cs.mun.ca WWW : http://web.cs.mun.ca/~garyp [Ed. note - well put, Gary. While shoe sole thickness is regulated, nothing is said about having orthopedic inserts inside the boots so that may be a possibility.] ******************************************************************* In comment to UIT list Vol. 1 - #18 for Tom (Offhand, HS Varsity, Mental) and Wiktor(offhand problems). Tom, entered comments about the mental aspect of shooting. The non-dominant description has been reviewed by qualified psychologists of psychology departments and every year there after by qualified psychologists for content and correctness. No faults found. As for the item on the "reconcile the mental entity model with the physical data method", it is an accepted procedure within the psychology community. The athlete can read and learn about the procedure in the book "The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Shooting", Mr. Chet Skinner author. Wiktor, entered comments about Olympians moving in position. During the initial sighting phase which is to prove natural point of aim the shooter will move. Here is the issue to note however, This movement during the final sight period clearly indicates the Champion Olympic shooter is shooting the physical system and not mental precision. The fact that the shooter is moving is an indication that the shooter is attempting to find and maintain the correct or perfect bull's-eye sight picture. If the shooter was using the mental procedure the movement would not be observed as the shooter will have locked onto the perfect sight picture and bull's-eye for 3/4 of a second and the shooter will have no doubt that the shot is the perfect bull's-eye. The Olympic shooters movement clearly indicates that the shooter will grab or snatch a trigger pull as the bull slides past the sight. This is shooting by chance and the shooter is betting that shot will result in a bull and not a missed shot. Not an accepted practice. For those who wish to learn mental shooting, "The Mental Art of World Class Competitive Shooting" is available from Mr. Chet Skinner, Coach at meecin@tnproweb.com. Chet Skinner, Coach ********************************************************************* Also try Mo DeFina at Mo's Competitor Supplies (MCS) 34 Delmar Drive Brookfield Conn 06804 203-775-1013 He frequently has used target shooting equipment. Paula Lambertz ********************************************************************** RE: Standing position. Have noted many good discussions on the standing position as implemented by top level shooters in competitions. It appears that all discussions center on the hips and give various recommendations for its positioning and non-use during the standing position. The fact remains the standing position is constructed in such a manner as to permit the shooter or athlete in achieving a balanced position which will allow stabilizing the athletes upright stance. This balance is located or centered on the hips or pelvis of the shooters stance. The hips and lower body elements are the true members of mass and balance for all shooters in the standing position. The standing position is constructed in the following manner, both feet are spread shoulders width apart and toes are turned inward 1/8th to a 1/4 of an inch and the weight is positioned forward upon the balls of the feet. The weight distribution is 65 % on the balls of the foot and remainder on the heal of the foot. This is consistent with body mass and body weight distribution during the standing position. The hip is not pushed out or forward in any manner because the spine is tilted to the rear so as to balance the weight of the rifle and upper body mass. The upper body mass is balanced by the upright head. This is where many of the shooters miss the point of balance within the standing position. With the hips and pelvis centered over the feet causing body balance, and, this balance must be maintained by off setting the spine in compensation of the upper body mass and rifle weight. The key to the spine and rifle balance is spine compression. To achieve typical spine compression is by evacuating the lung of all oxygen and trash gases. Such lung evacuation causes the spine to compress upon itself and in effect locks the spine/rifle position in place with the bone-to-bone contact constructed position. This then is the perfect standing position, one every world class shooter should emulate. Now let us discuss the items contained within the UIT list #18. Hip moved forward: two reasons for this cause, 1. poor muscle control because of little or no physical exercise to build muscle tissue that will be ample for the requirement of the standing position. and, 2. poor shooting posture and control during the standing position by the shooter. In one case the shooter is said to leave the rear leg trailing backwards with the major weight placed upon the front leg. A little thought on the shooters part would indicate that with this position method the pelvis is now off balance and therefore the shooting position is now off balance. The result of this is poor shots or a very tiring physical shooting procedure. So how does the body now balance the spine/rifle combination...? Weight mass is now over the front leg and the spine is not over the front leg so where is the center of weight mass...? No, the shooting position is incorrect and the weight mass is still just center of the pelvis and the spine and rifle still have an obligation to center over the pelvis between the two feet which are spread shoulders width apart. Vessela Lechteva's shooting position is not correct and not balanced. She is a physical shooter. That is why Mr. Jeffries is having trouble in the hold(a physical shooting activity). The Lechteva shooting position is out of balance and a shooter can not maintain this shooting position. We are told that this rear leg is accomplished this way because of knee flexing movement during the shooting position. The knee movement is a (kinesthetic) warning to the shooter that something is wrong with the shooting position and the shooter should break the circuit and start the construction of the position over again. Not continue with a poorly constructed shooting position and therewith achieve poor shooting results. Don't mess with Mother Nature and her rules of balance and operation. Learn it right and do it right and you will receive it right at the score time. Well you say Lecteva won the competition, fine, she won the competition but it is not you and you cannot use her position as it was constructed for her and no one else. Let me ask you a question, is her position for competition or is it for match pressure purposes. How many novices are attempting to duplicate her standing position and failing. Isn't that a good way to eliminate your competition. Think about it. Here is one other item, in checking her World Cup scores we find that she is shooting at her real score level and not much above it. It is far away from and below the score you are attempting to set as the young shooter goal and telling the young shooter her position is the correct way to go. Think about it...! The above reminds me of an incident that has made the rounds of many shooting pubs. The story goes something like this. "During one World Class Competition a well known pistol shooter was noted to have carried a brick to the firing point and placed it under one of his feet during the competition. This shooter won the competition and set a new world record. The next competition about a week later, this same pistol shooter showed up and noted that half a dozen shooters were standing on the firing line with, you guess it, a brick under one of their feet. The reason the pistol shooter put the brick under his foot in the first place was the firing line had a slight depression and the brick leveled the shooters stance during the previous weeks World Competition." End of story. It is hard to believe that our shooters are falling for such foolery as the rear leg trailing and all the weight on the front. Thank heaven there was no brick observed. Chet Skinner, Coach ******************************************************************* I use a feinwerkbau 2602 and Feinwerkbau 601 for shooting the 2602 is very new i'am the first shooting in use in Argentina i like recive information about experience whith 2602 Best Regards Osvaldo Paez [Ed. note - welcome to the list. OK, everyone, let's help out our newest member! While I know people who use the 2601, all I know is they like the trigger better than Anschutz', which I find hard to believe myself.] ******************************************************************* End of UIT Mailing List #19 Michael Ray - Systems Engineer Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. Rifle Coach The Olympic Shooting Page - http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1190/